Results 1 to 59 of 59

Thread: Electric / hybrid 240z

  1. #1
    Datsaholic Mr Camouflage's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1278
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Age
    48
    Posts
    3,460

    Default Electric / hybrid 240z

    I commend this guy for wanting to save the environment, but I wish he could have chosen a modern econo-box small car instead of an early 240Z

    Looks to be an early 240Z with the 240Z side emblems, rear hatch vents, original hubcaps, Nissan 2400 OHC valve cover on what was probably the original matching numbers engine (now sold off for parts). Apart from the sunroof it appears to be in better than average condition.

    Anybody want to estimate what it would have been worth, before it was made environmentally friendly.

    http://ampeater.wordpress.com/page/2/
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
    www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
    www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

  2. #2
    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4106
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Savannah, Georgia
    Posts
    6,702

    Default

    That very project has been running through my mind for a loooong time. Building an electric 240Z as a daily driver-and a track monster. Here in Ga. it would have to be a Hybrid, true electric vehicles are limited to 35mph by legislation, and must have a flashing yellow light on top...
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

  3. #3
    Registered User MikeW's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3294
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hls30.com View Post
    Here in Ga. it would have to be a Hybrid, true electric vehicles are limited to 35mph by legislation, and must have a flashing yellow light on top...
    I don't recall seeing flashing yellow lights on the Saturn/GM EV1.
    -Mike
    Add your Z to my online spreadsheet registry

  4. #4
    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4106
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Savannah, Georgia
    Posts
    6,702

    Default

    Mike,
    That is the reason I was given by owner of the local dealer of one of the GM lots for having to remove the 20 or so Electric Vehicles he had on his lot several years ago. He retro fitted several of them with lights, and limiters but then no one took them as serious vehicles. They are still in storage, and according to him, unsellable as determined by the DOT.
    I haven't investigated personally, but why would a dealer want to lie about it-much less eat the loss?
    Will
    Last edited by hls30.com; 04-04-2008 at 08:23 AM.
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    I'd like to comment as this is my project. I would like to start by saying that I didn't choose this particular car to electrify, but its fate was sealed when the engine exploded during some fairly sedate driving one beautiful summer afternoon. It wasn't until the engine tear down that I discovered the problem, an oil channel in the crank plugged for piston #5, which quickly lead to the death of a bolt on a connecting rod. This left a large mass of metal floating around the crankshaft. It was almost instantly sucked/thrown into an adjacent piston where it wreaked havoc for about .1 seconds before the engine violently seized. During this process something was also ejected through the oil pan. The car sat for a couple years after that, during that time some minor rust that had been hidden by the previous owner (and not disclosed or detected at time of purchase) expanded and made itself seen under the doors and one large spot in the driver's floor and a few small spots elsewhere.

    This project is an attempt to give this beautiful car a new lease on life, instead of the painfull process of watching a previously glorious vehicle deteriorate into scrap.

    If anybody would like to save this vehicle from permanant modification it is available. I retained the numbers matching engine block. I have another (running) 280z that I would be just as happy to convert instead.

  6. #6
    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4106
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Savannah, Georgia
    Posts
    6,702

    Default

    I would like more source details on the project, and I certainly see the value in getting a car on back on the road. Unless it is a low vin, I would keep it in the project, and show it in the ULtra modified class. Instant torque does mean instant fun, and instant surprise for anyone rolling up.
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    HLS3004462

    I don't know how to read vin #s.

    And yes, 1000amps in tap instantly should be awesome. I'm worried about needing a subframe for the torque, but I'll go easy at first (I'll try anyhow)

  8. #8
    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4106
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Savannah, Georgia
    Posts
    6,702

    Default

    Well, you do have a low vin...4462.

    I think you will need a better mount for the motor/tranny to the body-that much snap needs more place to dissipate.
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

  9. #9
    PaperBoy Go240Zags's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-5416
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    48°56′19″N, 119°26′6″W Oroville, Washington at the top of US97 in the Sunny Okanogan Valley
    Age
    59
    Posts
    842

    Default

    If the original #s matching engine is trashed I think it's a great idea. The car would be the lightest in the first gen Z series so a good choice for the electric motor, considering the weight of the batteries alone. If gives me hope that my non-numbers matching Z could live on if gas just gets too much to afford. If it's a case of it being a Series I, maybe someone has a Series II or later 240Z in equal shape they could swap him (it would be a little heavier, but might calm some nerves about using a Series I). My questions are: How loud is that diesel generator going to be? What do you think the top speed and total range will be? Probably depend on the type of driving. I applaud all who are looking into alternatives to burning gasoline. The more gas we save the more will be available to drive our classics.
    1970 240Z - 7/70 HLS30-07273
    1971 240Z - 12/70 HLS30-17821
    1972 240Z given away, then went to crusher
    1983 280ZXT sold to finance 1970
    1992 Chevy Shortbox K1500
    1999 BMW R1100GS

    Rust Never Sleeps

    Neil Young

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Go240Zags View Post
    My questions are: How loud is that diesel generator going to be? What do you think the top speed and total range will be? Probably depend on the type of driving. I applaud all who are looking into alternatives to burning gasoline. The more gas we save the more will be available to drive our classics.
    Top speed should be about the same as stock, while acceleration should be quite a bit better. Range will be largely dependent on speed, probably 100mi@30mph, 50mi@50mph, <30mi@>70mph.

    I just want my 25 mile commute (each way) to be gas free. I will charge at school. Any additional driving I do beyond that will require the generator, which will negate some of the benefits (extremely quiet and smooth), but also negate the main limitation (short range).

    The generator will not be a permanent part of the car, I hope to make it a removable module. It could easily be replaced with an additional battery pack, or nothing (race mode, lets say). Even a hydrogen fuel cell or a gas/propane/methane/ethanol generator, whatever makes the most sense at the time.

    Ideally, however, it will be replaced with a lightweight, ultra high-capacity lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) battery pack in the future when prices become more reasonable.

    This would make the diesel useless. 200+ mile range and sub hour recharge is the ultimate goal.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hls30.com View Post
    Well, you do have a low vin...4462.

    I think you will need a better mount for the motor/tranny to the body-that much snap needs more place to dissipate.
    Will
    I'm still working on the motor mount, its been giving me lots of problems (no easy way to do it because of the steering column). I've got a pretty solid idea in the works; I'm waiting for the local steel supply to get their act together and sell me the 1.5" steel square tube I need to get it done.

  12. #12
    beandip beandip's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1887
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Beaverton, Oregon
    Age
    81
    Posts
    4,038

    Default

    The Treasurer of our Z car club. His Brother has built a Datsun 1200 sedan, all electric. It puts down more than 400 ft lbs of torque to the ground. Turned the 1/4 at 114 mph and I didn't get the ET, but it was around 9 sec. Running street slicks and the car is street legal. Get this, 250 mile range on a single charge. The battery pack will fit in the spare tire tub on a Z . The engines , there are two that are siamesed, weigh around 300 lbs total and are smaller than a 4 banger. His name is John Wayland . He drives the car to the strip! John told me that after a run the turn around time to recharge is about 3 min. ! John was featured on the front page of the Wall street Journal a while back. He is a forklift electrician by trade. I would do this mod in a heart beat believe me if I had the bucks. By the way this was the first run with a new lithium-ion battery pack and it had upped his HP by about 100 HP. and shed about 700 lbs of weight. He knew he would be having traction problems and the tires didn't hook up until the 1/8 mile that is when the car really took off. Since that speed was reached , he couldn't make another run until a roll cage is installed and now the driver must wear a Fire suit. So I believe now he is tubing the rear to allow for larger tires also. So the technology is out there. Gary
    I'd rather die while I am living than live while I am dieing. CZC 1887 IZCC 12602 Member of NorthWest Z Car Club

  13. #13
    beandip beandip's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1887
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Beaverton, Oregon
    Age
    81
    Posts
    4,038

    Default

    As a side note , John told me when he was first starting out with building this car , they used a Z 5 speed and a R-200 diff. They never had one failure on the trans but broke many rear ends. Now they are running direct drive. He needed to invent a controller to handle the Amps. needed to power this monster. The controller , named Zilla as in Godzilla, acts just like any foot throttle. The funny thing is watching him race another car. Like a full blown Vette . The little Datsun sits on the line silent while the vette is all smoke and noise and flames coming out of the exhaust and then all hell brakes loose and the 1200 shoots out in front by about 8 car lengths smoking the tires! Something to see. Gary
    I'd rather die while I am living than live while I am dieing. CZC 1887 IZCC 12602 Member of NorthWest Z Car Club

  14. #14
    PaperBoy Go240Zags's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-5416
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    48°56′19″N, 119°26′6″W Oroville, Washington at the top of US97 in the Sunny Okanogan Valley
    Age
    59
    Posts
    842

    Default

    If I could go 200 miles on a charge while maintaining highway/freeway speeds -- with a little extra for passing etc. I think I would seriously consider finding a good shell to do this to, especially if it took only an hour to recharge. That would mean adding an hour to a five hour, 250 or so trip for me to Seattle. I'd just have to plan my recharge around lunch/dinner so we could both fuel up at the same time. If the conversion cost was the same as say a used Prius it would be well worth it. Right now whenever I drive to Seattle and back I know I'm looking at about 100 bucks just for gas.
    1970 240Z - 7/70 HLS30-07273
    1971 240Z - 12/70 HLS30-17821
    1972 240Z given away, then went to crusher
    1983 280ZXT sold to finance 1970
    1992 Chevy Shortbox K1500
    1999 BMW R1100GS

    Rust Never Sleeps

    Neil Young

  15. #15
    240Z Elec. Upgrade guy Zs-ondabrain's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4921
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Marysville, WA. U.S.A.
    Age
    49
    Posts
    4,004

    Default

    Apon reading as much as possible on the site, Your looking at this equasion....
    156000watts / 750 watts/hp *.80 efficiency factor 166hp peak

    That should NOT be a problem for the 5-speed you have in mind. The tranni you have should easily handle 200+ HP but it's the torque I'm worried about.

    400+ FPT may be an issue for the Nissan tranny, but if you can limit it in increments, I still don't see an issue.

    Great project, keep us up to date.

    Dave.
    Rate my Z at Car Domain.com
    My 70' 240Z, Daily Driver

    My Parking Light and Headlight Upgrade Harness's at MotorSport Auto
    HLH - PLH - SCP - ZXP's at MSA *They accept PayPal!!*
    Headlight Upgrade Harness info here at ClassicZCar Club
    HLH info at CZCC Do a search for info on the other upgrades I offer.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Wow, so much interest. I have received more hits to the blog today than I have for the 30+ days its been up put together!

    beandip - You might know him as John Wayland, I know him as Plasma Boy
    His is the word's fasted street driven electric IIRC. His site has been a huge inspiration, it was the amazing amount of technical info I learned going through his car's history step by step that prompted me to begin chronicling my progress. I hope I can be even 1/10th as helpful to the cause as he is.

    Go240Zags - Everybody seems to want that elusive 200+ mile range before they will consider an electric. But how many miles do you drive on a daily basis? Most people commute something like 30 miles a day or less. If everyone was making this daily trip on electrons we'd all be much better off, both financially and in terms of political stability. Most families have 2+ cars anyway so you're not giving up the ability to take longer trips anyhow. Even if you were limited to a single vehicle, something like a range extending generator makes this problem null. Driving with a trailer may be a pain but your average person would only use it a few days out of the year anyhow.

    Zs-ondabrain - Its the torque that has me worried as well. My motto has kind have been 'do it and see what happens" so far, but I do really hope the tranny holds up. Switching it would require a big redesign, but I could always do it if I don't have a choice. At least I have full control over it, I can always limit my amps if needed. I'm not really sure how much torque I'll be making anyhow, my motor is foreign and I have no performance curves for it. I assume it is pretty similar to the more common advanced dc motors used.

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Camouflage;250737
    Anybody want to estimate what it would have been worth, before it was made environmentally friendly.

    [url
    http://ampeater.wordpress.com/page/2/[/url]
    While it is true I'm trying to make this car better to the environment than it was, thats not exactly why I'm going electric.

    I want it to be fast!

    Plain and simple.

  18. #18
    beandip beandip's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1887
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Beaverton, Oregon
    Age
    81
    Posts
    4,038

    Default

    jmead, Plasma boy, Ha ha there is a story about that name. The main problem at present it seems is the cost of the batteries. The battery pack for the white Zombie , the 1200 Datsun, runs about $64K not exactly chump change. Plus the cost to the environment is really big. According to John the future is in AC but the cost of components is vary expensive. This is why he is using DC. The controller seems to be the key , from what I gather . It is water cooled and it works just like a regular throttle. The amps it controls are huge. He had a melt down in the past , hence the name Plasma Boy. You can bet the major auto builders are watching , big time. I only hope he can make some big bucks with his innovation. Gary
    I'd rather die while I am living than live while I am dieing. CZC 1887 IZCC 12602 Member of NorthWest Z Car Club

  19. #19
    Still plays with cars kenz240z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-6323
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Berthoud, CO
    Age
    53
    Posts
    738

    Default

    Here's another electric Z project...

    http://seth.drivexc.com/
    Kenny P.

    '73 240Z
    '82 ZX L28
    '82 ZX 5-speed
    Round top SU's
    Tokico HP struts
    Tokico Springs
    Urethane bushings

    my gallery

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-1316
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    2,495

    Default

    I'm actually all for alternative fuels and the like in Zeds. While I love the original L-series I wonder if someday when there is no oil left, what alternatives we will have?

    I have been looking at Rotary engines and came across a website the other day talking about Hydrogen and a Steam reaction.

    I'm very interested to see how this project progresses.

  21. #21
    Datsaholic Mr Camouflage's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1278
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Age
    48
    Posts
    3,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jmead View Post
    I'm still working on the motor mount, its been giving me lots of problems (no easy way to do it because of the steering column). I've got a pretty solid idea in the works; I'm waiting for the local steel supply to get their act together and sell me the 1.5" steel square tube I need to get it done.
    Hi Jmead

    Heres Seths engine mount page : http://seth.drivexc.com/240Z/Album11/motor_mount.html

    I guess if I were in your shoes, I'd have rebuilt the early vin Z's engine and sold the car, since people over there will pay more for an early Z, then started afresh with a cheaper z. But then again, better the devil you know I guess.

    I like the idea of an electric car. I've though that a Datsun 1000 or 1200 would be a great candidate. Maybe thats what I should do to the 240z I have with a seized motor that's been sitting beside the house for a few years.
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
    www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
    www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

  22. #22
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Camouflage View Post
    I like the idea of an electric car. I've though that a Datsun 1000 or 1200 would be a great candidate. Maybe thats what I should do to the 240z I have with a seized motor that's been sitting beside the house for a few years.
    If I were doing it again I might go for a 1200 instead. They are amazingly light, 1600lbs stock vs 2300lbs stock. That right there will make a big performance/range difference for the same powertrain.

    The Z cars do have an incredible amount of engine bay space. I was able to fit 8 60lb batteries up front and 4 in the rear with no issues. In most conversions this ratio is reversed. It leads to poor performance due to less than optimal weight distribution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Camouflage View Post
    Maybe thats what I should do to the 240z I have with a seized motor that's been sitting beside the house for a few years.
    Go for it! You'll be way ahead of the curve.

  23. #23
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default



    Motor is powered up for first time!

    I even got in and shifted through the different gears, checking the amperage as the wheels spin faster and faster.

    Now to finish the motor mount, do a little wiring and get it on the road.

  24. #24
    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4106
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Savannah, Georgia
    Posts
    6,702

    Default

    SAWEET! Can't wait to see it under power!!!
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

  25. #25
    Registered User Derek's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-14222
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ocala Fl
    Posts
    100

    Default

    That is so cool.
    You definitely have inspired me to rethink my long term ZCar Plans.
    A plug in Z would be perfect for my daily drive.
    Of course I'd still have to have a gas powered one as well!.

    Derek

  26. #26
    Datsaholic Mr Camouflage's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1278
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Age
    48
    Posts
    3,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek View Post
    Of course I'd still have to have a gas powered one as well!.

    Derek
    Of course, goes without saying.

    Jmead, How is all that weight in front of the front axle line going to affect the handling?

    How heavy are those batteries?
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
    www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
    www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

  27. #27
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Camouflage View Post
    Of course, goes without saying.

    Jmead, How is all that weight in front of the front axle line going to affect the handling?

    How heavy are those batteries?
    There are 8 batteries up front, weighing 60lbs each, this is only 480 lbs. About the same as the engine they replace

  28. #28
    Registered User BadDog's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1680
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Oswego, NY
    Posts
    375

    Thumbs up

    I gotta hand it to ya kid, you're doing a great job. Two things:

    1) You *gotta* bring this car up to a show in Syracuse or Rochester this summer. I have to see it in person :-)

    2) What's your budget for this project and by what % do you think you'll exceed it? ;-)
    1973 240Z Silver, 5 spd., 4.11 diff., 150,000+ miles
    2013 Subaru Impreza 5-door

  29. #29
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-15009
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northridge, CA
    Age
    65
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Impressive project!
    Our Z's batteries weigh 84 lbs. a piece! 1008 lbs. total.
    But you have some other great ideas I see.

    Joe
    Operation Z
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC01299a.JPG 
Views:	93 
Size:	53.5 KB 
ID:	22659  

  30. #30
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default



    The motor is mounted and the car is completely wired up. I've been working non-stop for 20 hours to get it done.

    Maiden voyage tomorrow!

  31. #31
    Registered User Derek's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-14222
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ocala Fl
    Posts
    100

    Default

    WOW great progress James!
    You know you could always use the loop of cable on the middle batteries in the passenger compartment (blog pic) as a cup holder.

    Thanks again for sharing this with us.
    Derek

  32. #32
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek View Post
    WOW great progress James!
    You know you could always use the loop of cable on the middle batteries in the passenger compartment (blog pic) as a cup holder.

    Thanks again for sharing this with us.
    Derek
    Hehe, it is kind of asking for a cup. I wish I didn't have to make it so obtrusive, I will have to see about changing that in the next revision.

    Better pic with more progress:


  33. #33
    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4106
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Savannah, Georgia
    Posts
    6,702

    Default

    Outstanding!
    20 hours straight...talk about commitment!
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

  34. #34
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default



    Maiden voyage!

  35. #35
    Registered User Derek's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-14222
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ocala Fl
    Posts
    100

    Default

    very cool James.
    post more video!!

    derek

  36. #36
    240Z Elec. Upgrade guy Zs-ondabrain's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4921
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Marysville, WA. U.S.A.
    Age
    49
    Posts
    4,004

    Default

    That's awesome, but it just seems to be missing that "VROOM VROOOOM"

    How about a little speaker in the back to reproduce the exhaust notes.

    Dave.
    Rate my Z at Car Domain.com
    My 70' 240Z, Daily Driver

    My Parking Light and Headlight Upgrade Harness's at MotorSport Auto
    HLH - PLH - SCP - ZXP's at MSA *They accept PayPal!!*
    Headlight Upgrade Harness info here at ClassicZCar Club
    HLH info at CZCC Do a search for info on the other upgrades I offer.

  37. #37
    Registered User sleepyzzz's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-6449
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Harrison AR
    Age
    64
    Posts
    131

    Default

    i for one, am very impressed with your work, and wonder if you have thought of going into a refurbishing business and making some serious money off of this? or maybe offering all of the needed parts with instructions on how to install.

    if a solar panel was added to this system, to constantly recharge the batteries from the sun as you drive, or even parked,make this more user friendly for those of us that travell in our work? i know it would ruin the looks of the car to have something on the roof,hood,or back glass, but then again, it could be laying in the rear catching the sun's rays coming thru the glass.

    on average i run about 300 miles per day in my sales calls, and i have not seen anyone boasting that kind of mileage out of electrics yet. filling up forty to forty five dollars per day in gas, is taking all of the fun out of my job.
    '74 260 2 + 2 trying to get it together
    '69 2000 roadster
    '00 Maxima SE for the wife
    '93 300ZX convertible - daughter's car
    '02 Sentra SER-4 -son's car
    '10 Frontier, my work truck
    '88 300ZX SS, my ex
    '79 280ZX my first one, sold after getting married

  38. #38
    Registered User MikeW's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3294
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyzzz View Post
    if a solar panel was added to this system, to constantly recharge the batteries from the sun as you drive, or even parked,make this more user friendly for those of us that travell in our work?
    If this were that simple I'm sure it would have been done before. Photovoltaics on a car like this charging the batteries all day long in bright sunlight might get you a few hundred feet of driving. The solar powered cars you may have seen driving across Australia tend to be extremely light and aerodynamic with room for only a driver and a huge surface area of PV cells.
    -Mike
    Add your Z to my online spreadsheet registry

  39. #39
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BadDog View Post
    I gotta hand it to ya kid, you're doing a great job. Two things:

    1) You *gotta* bring this car up to a show in Syracuse or Rochester this summer. I have to see it in person :-)

    2) What's your budget for this project and by what % do you think you'll exceed it? ;-)
    1) If the "auxiliary power unit" is done by then it would make a fun day trip, though I still have a lot of work left before its show quality.

    2) I've been keeping a detailed log of all my expenses and I'm at a little over $6k in the car right now, including another $1k for the generator parts yet to be installed. My budget is pretty much "how much money can this car save me over the next few years?". I have increased that figure several times when choosing higher end components with the justification that if I build the car right it will work reliably for many years and ultimately save me more than my investment in gas.

    I spend $2-3k a year on gas (at $3/gallon, those days are gone) alone, so over my 4 years of college it will pay for itself. After that point I have essentially a free car that just needs new batteries every 4 years. I spent $2300 for a pack of the absolutely highest performance lead acid batteries available, and I could have gotten some cheap flooded batteries for less than $1000. The major components (motor and motor controller) should last for 20+ years.

    The more I did the math the more I realized I couldn't afford not to build an EV.

  40. #40
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyzzz View Post
    i for one, am very impressed with your work, and wonder if you have thought of going into a refurbishing business and making some serious money off of this? or maybe offering all of the needed parts with instructions on how to install.
    Thank you. Honestly every time I look at it I can't believe I built it. I've put more time and energy into this project than anything I have done.

    I have been thinking constantly about the potential to make a business out of this. I've been getting so much attention recently its really making me think it might be possible. I have another datsun, a 76 280z, and I may convert that and see if there are any takers. Sell it on ebay motors perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyzzz View Post
    if a solar panel was added to this system, to constantly recharge the batteries from the sun as you drive, or even parked,make this more user friendly for those of us that travell in our work? i know it would ruin the looks of the car to have something on the roof,hood,or back glass, but then again, it could be laying in the rear catching the sun's rays coming thru the glass.
    This was the focus of a long brainstorm session not too long ago. My conclusion was that it would work, but it wouldn't provide enough energy to warrant the investment. I could fit at most 300 watts of panels on the car easily. The battery pack is 10,000 watts so at full sun it would take about 33 hours for a full charge. You only get perhaps 6 hours of full sun on a good day, so you're talking 5 days for 1 complete charge. You would be getting maybe 4-5 miles of added range each day, with $0 electricity costs for those miles. I think either the efficiency of the vehicle would have to go way up (less watt/hours per mile), or the efficiency of the solar panels would have to increase before it would make sense financially.

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyzzz View Post
    on average i run about 300 miles per day in my sales calls, and i have not seen anyone boasting that kind of mileage out of electrics yet. filling up forty to forty five dollars per day in gas, is taking all of the fun out of my job.
    300 Miles would be doable with current technology, but extremely expensive. It would require a massive LiFePO4 battery pack (like 75,000 watt hours) in a normal vehicle. Even at $1/watt (about the price of the very cheapest cells right now) it would be $75,000 for batteries alone. This technology can last for 10 years or more, so at $45/day it would take 4.5 years of gas savings to pay for a pack of that size.

    A better alternative might be a hybrid. By recapturing the energy lost during breaking, having the engine shut off at stop lights and when traveling below 40 mph you could probably cut that fuel usage down by 1/3 to 1/2 depending on the driving conditions.

  41. #41
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-15009
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northridge, CA
    Age
    65
    Posts
    6

    Default Range/Charge Time

    We get 30-53 miles on a charge on our 280Z EV, this link caught my attention (90% charge in 5 minutes?) http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/12...releases-march
    Last edited by OperationZ; 04-13-2008 at 07:01 PM.

  42. #42
    Datsaholic Mr Camouflage's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1278
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Age
    48
    Posts
    3,460

    Default

    I'm still not convinced that all that weight in front of the axle line is a good thing. The engine that was replaced sat mostly above and behind the axle line. I wonder what the weight distribution is now. How's it handle?
    www.nostalgictrio.com Skyline - Silvia - Fairlady Z
    www.ozdat.com The Australian Datsun site.
    www.cafepress.com/vintagedatsun

  43. #43
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Camouflage View Post
    I'm still not convinced that all that weight in front of the axle line is a good thing. The engine that was replaced sat mostly above and behind the axle line. I wonder what the weight distribution is now. How's it handle?
    I'm hoping the weight out front wont make a big difference. The total weight of the front is about the same, but shifted a few inches forward. I could have but the batteries on their sides and had a taller pack that was more over the axle, but it came down to a trade off between body roll and steering response. I decided to go with the lower center of gravity. I will push it soon and see how it performs, but there are a few things I need to attend to first.

    OperationZ - That link certainly grabbed my attention too. I'm hopefull the technology comes to market soon, and that its not yet another unfulfilled revolutionary battery promise. It seems like there are several battery technologies right around the corner now poised to really take EVs up to the next level of performance/practicality, I figure at least one of them will become a reality.

  44. #44
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    [QUOTE=OperationZ;251900]We get 30-53 miles on a charge on our 280Z EV

    What is your Wh/mi like? How many amps do you pull on level ground at, say, 50mph? It would be nice to have a baseline to compare against when I take it out for its first real workout in about a week.

  45. #45
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-15009
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northridge, CA
    Age
    65
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Level ground 0% grade, 2nd gear @ 50 mph is about 80-90 amps, 40 mph is about 50 amps, remember my Z weighs 3220 with 1008 lbs. of batteries.

    hope this helps

    Joe

  46. #46
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OperationZ View Post
    Level ground 0% grade, 2nd gear @ 50 mph is about 80-90 amps, 40 mph is about 50 amps, remember my Z weighs 3220 with 1008 lbs. of batteries.

    hope this helps

    Joe
    These are battery amps, right? And what voltage are you running at?

  47. #47
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-15009
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northridge, CA
    Age
    65
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Acutally motor amps drawing from the battery pack.
    Our system is 144 volts, on a full charge our volt gauge reads around 156v.

  48. #48
    Registered User Walter Moore's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-3035
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    1,833

    Default

    Generally are the (relatively) low voltages dictated by the available batteries?

    Don't get me wrong, 150V is nothing to play around with casually, but in the industrial controls world, where I work, I have never seen any system installed that was capable of producing the power necessary to drive a car that operated at voltages that low.

    Fifteen to twenty years ago we used to use 300V servos a lot, but anymore when you get above 22kw, most installations will switch to a brushless 600V system. The reason frankly is that when it comes to efficiency, current is the enemy.

    One of the links listed above had a discussion of someone's car which used a 1000A controller. That is just insane. High current necessarily means big, heavy wires, and big heavy motors. Increasing the voltage by a couple of powers of two reduces the size and weight of the wires and motor, and directly reduces the parasitic loses of the system.

    None of which helps I suppose if to get that extra voltage you have to go from a 1000 lb battery pack to a 4000 lb version.

    Perhaps at some point in the future batteries could be made with a large number of smaller cells, like happened when cars went from 6V systems to 12V systems. Today's 12V batteries are in many cases actually smaller than the old 6V batteries used to be.

    But as long as the small time experimenters are stuck with building battery packs out of 12V primary ignition batteries I guess the lower voltage system may be the only available compromise.
    (I talked my self in a circle didn't I? )
    '71 240Z, Because any fool can drive fast in a straight line.

  49. #49
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Moore View Post
    Generally are the (relatively) low voltages dictated by the available batteries?

    Don't get me wrong, 150V is nothing to play around with casually, but in the industrial controls world, where I work, I have never seen any system installed that was capable of producing the power necessary to drive a car that operated at voltages that low.

    Fifteen to twenty years ago we used to use 300V servos a lot, but anymore when you get above 22kw, most installations will switch to a brushless 600V system. The reason frankly is that when it comes to efficiency, current is the enemy.

    One of the links listed above had a discussion of someone's car which used a 1000A controller. That is just insane. High current necessarily means big, heavy wires, and big heavy motors. Increasing the voltage by a couple of powers of two reduces the size and weight of the wires and motor, and directly reduces the parasitic loses of the system.
    Yeah, i've got a 1000Amp controller as well, and i've got probably 75 lbs worth of copper in the car just for the battery interconnects and motor cables.

    This is just peak, however, a more normal cruising amperage would be more like 100 amps, much more reasonable.

    I spent about 15 minutes thrashing it, probably 400A+ usage for several solid minutes, jumped out and felt the cables, cold, and the controller, barely warm. The motor isn't breaking a sweat with its big blower.

  50. #50
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    http://www.jumpcut.com/view/?id=CEEF...60000423CEF5B0

    Short video, really gave the motor mount a good test today. None of the burnout videos came out because it got too dark, will try again tomorrow.

  51. #51
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default


  52. #52
    Registered User Derek's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-14222
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ocala Fl
    Posts
    100

    Default

    Electric drifting how cool!

    You've accomplished one thing for sure though. You have The people from Classic Z Car and HybridZ agreeing on something!


    Derek

  53. #53
    Do it in a Z Mat M's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-6791
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Sierra Foothills outside of SACRAMENTO, CA
    Posts
    545

    Default

    Awesome!!! In a church parking lot???

    oh, the memories of youth group in the church parking lot.... but I digress.

    Thanks for starting this thread! I am very impressed and jealous that you have the drive (no pun intended) and the time to follow through wtih your work!!
    Last edited by Mat M; 04-15-2008 at 09:34 AM.
    Mat
    AKA MatMan
    MatM@M2Differentials.com

    m2differentials.com


    01/71 HLS30-19724 original 918, 4 speed, ready for the 5 spd swap, and R200 diff from the '81ZX
    08/71 HLS30-41979 multicolored auto, but under the knife - SOLD!!
    81 ZX Grey/blue 5-speed donor car, runs! - SOLD!!
    82 ZX Black auto T-top - motor/3.90 R200 donor car - MOST excellent PAPER WASP condo. - SOLD!!

  54. #54
    Registered User BadDog's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1680
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Oswego, NY
    Posts
    375

    Smile

    Don't worry about it being "show quality", its unique enough where it'll get a lot of interest!


    Nice electric burnouts BTW but don't break your R180! :-)

    [QUOTE=jmead;251851]1) If the "auxiliary power unit" is done by then it would make a fun day trip, though I still have a lot of work left before its show quality.
    Last edited by BadDog; 04-17-2008 at 01:06 PM.
    1973 240Z Silver, 5 spd., 4.11 diff., 150,000+ miles
    2013 Subaru Impreza 5-door

  55. #55
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BadDog View Post
    Don't worry about it being "show quality", its unique enough where it'll get a lot of interest!

    Nice electric burnouts BTW but don't break your R180! :-)
    Good advice, but if its gonna happen I might as well get it out of the way now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mat M
    Awesome!!! In a church parking lot???

    oh, the memories of youth group in the church parking lot.... but I digress.
    I haven't gotten the registration taken care of yet and its the only parking around here within reasonable distance. And if I'm going to piss Jesus off at least I'm doing it in the most environmentally friendly way I can I just had to see what it can do, but no more until I get it legal. Hopefully that will be very soon, I can't wait to get back behind the wheel!

  56. #56
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-3992
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Generator is f-i-n-a-l-l-y in the car. This part of the project seemed to drag on forever. I hope to get the wires run and some preliminary mileage numbers within just a few days. Next step is to get the exhaust fabbed up.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	100_3318.jpg 
Views:	153 
Size:	212.6 KB 
ID:	24092   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	100_3306.jpg 
Views:	98 
Size:	143.1 KB 
ID:	24093   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	100_3312.jpg 
Views:	238 
Size:	214.1 KB 
ID:	24094   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	100_3317.jpg 
Views:	202 
Size:	221.9 KB 
ID:	24095  

  57. #57
    Registered User BadDog's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-1680
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Oswego, NY
    Posts
    375

    Thumbs up

    Great news! Keep us posted :-)
    1973 240Z Silver, 5 spd., 4.11 diff., 150,000+ miles
    2013 Subaru Impreza 5-door

  58. #58
    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4106
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Savannah, Georgia
    Posts
    6,702

    Default

    Outstanding!
    Will
    A Z is beautiful from any angle, I just happen to prefer to view from the drivers' seat!

  59. #59
    Registered User ozy's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-16619
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    dublin, ireland
    Age
    39
    Posts
    20

    Default

    dont know what to say, but i think this is legendary! id love to see a show condition electric Z. it would really blow a lot of people away

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Any advice on Z's?
    By AmayaMeda in forum Introductions and Z Stories
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 04-02-2008, 11:55 PM
  2. 73 240z electric fuel pump for l28?
    By snag point in forum Help Me !!
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-16-2008, 06:24 PM
  3. Electric fan or new fan clutch/shroud for my 240z?
    By Jayru in forum Engine and Drivetrain (S30)
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 07-02-2006, 11:01 PM
  4. electric fuel pump on 240z 260z?
    By Bpaccaud in forum Body and Paint (S30)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-19-2003, 02:28 AM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •