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Thread: Being polite on the board

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    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
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    Default Being polite on the board

    Obviously this thread is about what it is titled!
    I will be copying some parts of other threads here for illustrative purposes.
    I would really like the finger pointing to stop-it takes both an instigator and a reaction to have a problem-otherwise you simply have an invitation.

    We have several members who, in my opinion, demonstrate that:
    1) He, she, or it are anxious(even come here specifically) to get in a fray.
    2) He, she or it can't ignore an invitation to have a fray
    3) He, she or it want this club to be a debate/berate forum, and not a group of people all out to gain understanding of some part of the complete story of their Z(s)!

    Along those lines:
    Please also remember-if you don't like some of what has gone on, this is your chance to help fix it. Criticizing without offering some help is like rust on a Z-somthing that will be cut out and replaced.


    The rules on this thread are very simple-dissagree politely all you want, if you find something to be rude, explain why, and what should be done about it.

    Will
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    Z Club of San Diego Montezuma's Avatar
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    This board is very polite...you want rude got to Hybridz.com, those guys are ruthless. I know that I come to boards for information on Z cars if somone tries to get rude with me I simply just move on, I got so many more important issues in life I don't need cyber problems too. On this board people in general are very nice and informativie. The thing seems to drive some crazy is using threads from 3 and 4 years ago as a starting point.

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    What "Monty" said.......
    Bruce Palmer
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    I would agree in general, this board is the best Z forum on the net! There are times and have been people/threads/posts that have been in poor taste or inappropriate...that just happens I understand that. When it does things need to be brought back in line promptly though so as to keep this the same great place it's been.

    I'm neutral on the comment about hybrid because they can get bad over there so I would not disagree with that comment. In my experience zcar.com is the worst, they seem like a bunch of inmature children...or at least a few years ago when I spent more time on that site. I only bring this up to further support my original statement about this being the best Z group around.

    As for specific actions on this board...well, we are all adults here and should act like it. There are absolutely going to be times when opinions differ and we just need to accept that, agree to disagree, and move on. Some debate is not a bad thing though when it is done in a mature way and has some merit. Examples of these two last statements are clear when the topic of "what is the best motor oil" or "what is the best muffler/exhaust system" come up...those are rather subjective in nature to a point and have no real right or wrong answer so there will be different opinions and debate...now if the debate over oil for example is supported by some studies or data showing why one product may be better/worse than another go for it, I want to learn more. If it's just pure opinion then state it and leave it be...and don't attack anyone else for doing this, just realize it's only an opinion.

    I could probably go on though I think you can see what I'm getting at here so I'll leave it at that.
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    Registered User conedodger's Avatar
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    Thank you Will. That is a good reminder. Post edited. I stand corrected. My apologies...
    Last edited by conedodger; 10-08-2009 at 09:26 AM.
    Rob
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    Thank you, Rob.
    Last edited by sblake01; 10-08-2009 at 09:28 AM.
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    I have to admit, I have spit a little Acid here and there, but at the same time, I try and keep it Nuetral when others can't help but be rude, ask completely stupid questions. Having Teen-age boys keeps my defenses up and I may come across as a smart-ass without even realizing it. So with that, I apologize if I have offended anyone.

    As for those who can't help themselves and come back with dumb comments or questions, that have nothing to do with the needed answer, inquiry or what have you, find somewhere else to spue your nonsense. I know we'd apreciate it.

    Dave.
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    For the most part I find the conversations and debates here to be mostly civil, more mature, and certainly a lot more friendly than some of the other boards I visit ocassionally. On those sites I'm simply a consumer of information and rarely post or get involved. I'm not just talking about other Z sites. There's always going to be people who push the limits or just plain go beyond them. Adding to David's comment, life is simply too short to sweat the small stuff. We all (I hope) have bigger concerns than posts by argumentative or rude and bitter individuals. Thankfully, those are few and far between here. Have a laugh at their expense and simply move on.
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    NUTs according to wife ChrisZ's Avatar
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    Did i miss something here ??...

    Other than that i have to 2nd most of what is stated above, oh yeahr, the Brit forum is okay as well, they also act as grown up's.

    Chris
    -73 240Z HLS30-171039
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    Registered User 240ZX's Avatar
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    IMO, this site has to be one of the most civil sites I've been to......actual mature conversations most always and helpful suggestions about our pride and joy toys!!! On some of the sites I frequent, they have a section just for political, religious, and any sort of BS one wants to discuss or bitch about....unabated! This helps keeps all the crap out of the subject specific sections. Personally, I think we do a pretty darn good job of managing ourselves!

    Tom

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    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
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    While I will agree that this is one of the least problematic boards I frequent-and certainly the one I post the most on-the beating that our members gave the owner of #13 really is not something that should make any of us proud. He has been a long time Z enthusiast-since well before the proliferation of computer based car clubs. He appears to be somewhat inexperienced in computerease, but quite well versed in Z. I just can't believe we as a community of S30 enthusiasts have been so callous and down right rude to someone we hardly know! You may have issues with the condition or originality of his car, or in the glowing descriptions of its rareness/desirability, but would you treat a new next door neighbor that you just discovered had a seriously low vin the same way? I wouldn't.

    I absolutely agree that we need to have correct information in our archives and dispel the half-truths, misinformation and outright lies, but I believe there is a way to show someone a fact without berating them for being wrong accidentally and unbeknown to them. When we identify a consistent source of problems and misinformation with an obvious motive to his/her spin, we cull that person from the herd-after there is no question in a consensus of the Moderators/Admins. Buying into a rabblerousers taunts just fuels his or her fire, and wastes time and energy that could be spent on Z.

    Is it better to chase off potential Z friends for being wrong, or to bring them in to being right?
    My wife knows how to wash a car-but she has no idea how to wash my Z. Would I get further rolling my eyes and telling telling her she was an idiot and had no freakin' clue(certain slow, painful, and bitter-cold death!), or showing her how to do the job in a friendly and enjoyable way(might well get lucky-and her help washing the Z for Nashville!)?

    Will
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    This site is very civil, and that is the only reason that the comments referred to seem snarky at all, much like spoonful of sugar may not seem as sweet when compared to a spoonful of honey. As other posters have stated - you won't have to look hard to find some of the scathing personal attacks typical on sites like zcar.com

    When a poster states something that another member knows to be a blatant falsehood, I am glad that someone often comes out and corrects them. If a member is posting BS, "not hurting feelings" is no good excuse for someone to remain silent or present a weak counter-point. While there are good and bad ways to go about this, the truth must make absolutely no concessions to something that is anything but.

    We also must keep in mind the possibility that the posting of misinformation is not always an "honest mistake." One such posting I read earlier by someone (whom I am certain was the primary inspiration for this thread) in the #13 thread brought up the possibility that all the controversy was being perpetuated to create hype for some hypothetical auction of said car, which (and not even being all that cynical by nature), I am forced to concede is a distinct possibility.
    -Andrew

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    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
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    Default Storm in a teacup.....

    Quote Originally Posted by hls30.com View Post
    .....the beating that our members gave the owner of #13 really is not something that should make any of us proud.
    "Beating"? Come now Will, that's a little bit too dramatic isn't it?

    I think - overall - he ( they? ) got a suitable welcome considering the sycophantic way he introduced himself. I don't think it was quite as innocent an arrival as you seem to believe, and the very first line he wrote was obviously pre-meditated to demonstrate allegiance to certain parties and disaffection of others.

    If you don't see that, then maybe you are a little bit too close to some of the parties concerned? I should imagine it is going to be difficult for you to be impartial when you actually socialise with the very person that was mentioned in the first line of this new member's first post.

    Quote Originally Posted by hls30.com
    He has been a long time Z enthusiast-since well before the proliferation of computer based car clubs. He appears to be somewhat inexperienced in computerease, but quite well versed in Z. I just can't believe we as a community of S30 enthusiasts have been so callous and down right rude to someone we hardly know!
    Callous and rude I don't see, sorry. You could arguably accuse some posts of being somewhat robust, but they were reactions to bad data and misconceptions in his posts rather than personal insults or provocations. The stuff he was writing sounded authoritative, which makes it all the more misleading for anyone who comes across the data in a search. His failure to re-engage after the questions and corrections does not inspire hope for any kind of conversation, let alone informed debate.

    And what's all this "inexperienced in computerease" about, too? It doesn't seem that he's all that incompetent to me. He's using the search function ( better than most! ) to dredge long-dormant threads, and using multiple quotes too. The cynic in me might even start to think that he's had a few private signposts shown to him 'off board'. Some comments seem to be aimed at provoking exactly the kind of reaction that you are telling some of us ( or at least one of us ) we are guilty of.

    I've seen lots of new members come and go here, sometimes treated indifferently or even appallingly. They didn't have any red carpets rolled out for them, but maybe you think the owner of "#13" ( ) deserves this honour as some kind of VIP treatment? If so, why?

    Isn't it the car that deserves any special treament - rather than the owner?



    Alan T.

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    Former frequent poster sblake01's Avatar
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    with the last two posts. The same points are made in these posts as were made by me in the '13' thread just in a more diplomatic fashion.
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    Known Zitus carrier! hls30.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H View Post
    "Beating"? Come now Will, that's a little bit too dramatic isn't it?

    I think - overall - he ( they? ) got a suitable welcome considering the sycophantic way he introduced himself. I don't think it was quite as innocent an arrival as you seem to believe, and the very first line he wrote was obviously pre-meditated to demonstrate allegiance to certain parties and disaffection of others.
    Alan T.

    I am going to leave part of this response out until I work it out more clearly, I will concede that his posts have issues, but in defense of the "allegiance", most people will gravitate toward someone they know and find enjoyable when placed in a large crowd of new people. Carl is absolutely wonderful at making a person feel great about owning a Z and becoming a part of the Z community-it is no wonder those who encounter him hold him in such high regard.


    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H View Post
    If you don't see that, then maybe you are a little bit too close to some of the parties concerned? I should imagine it is going to be difficult for you to be impartial when you actually socialise with the very person that was mentioned in the first line of this new member's first post.
    Alan T.
    Alan,
    You know I don't agree with everything Carl believes-he knows it too. Having said that, I absolutely respect and understand his opinions, and his efforts, and can honestly say I have enjoyed every experience I have had that involves him.
    I am not sure I could have posted any of that if I had a hard time being impartial when it comes to friends. Hell, I'd really like to shake your hand and look you in the eye too-I envy MikeW in that respect.

    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H View Post
    Callous and rude I don't see, sorry. You could arguably accuse some posts of being somewhat robust, but they were reactions to bad data and misconceptions in his posts rather than personal insults or provocations. The stuff he was writing sounded authoritative, which makes it all the more misleading for anyone who comes across the data in a search. His failure to re-engage after the questions and corrections does not inspire hope for any kind of conversation, let alone informed debate.

    And what's all this "inexperienced in computerease" about, too? It doesn't seem that he's all that incompetent to me. He's using the search function ( better than most! ) to dredge long-dormant threads, and using multiple quotes too. The cynic in me might even start to think that he's had a few private signposts shown to him 'off board'. Some comments seem to be aimed at provoking exactly the kind of reaction that you are telling some of us ( or at least one of us ) we are guilty of.
    I've seen lots of new members come and go here, sometimes treated indifferently or even appallingly. They didn't have any red carpets rolled out for them, but maybe you think the owner of "#13" ( ) deserves this honour as some kind of VIP treatment? If so, why?

    Isn't it the car that deserves any special treament - rather than the owner?

    Alan T.
    Alan, No owner or car deserves special treatment in a thread, but all deserve respect-until it becomes apparent that they are not a healthy part of the community. #13 is interesting because of its survival and its differences. Rick is interesting because of his Z history-I would hope to glean more of his Z experience-and that is the reason for the delay in getting on about a couple of the points above. I will post more, I am just seriously time challenged at the moment!
    Will
    Last edited by hls30.com; 10-09-2009 at 05:24 AM.
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    Former frequent poster sblake01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hls30.com
    I will concede that his posts have issues, but in defense of the "allegiance", most people will gravitate toward someone they know and find enjoyable when placed in a large crowd of new people.
    Now, that's where it becomes problematic for me. You can't compare the internet with real life/public contact, etc. That's why stuff like the 'my wife washing the car/my Z' example or the 'how you treat your next door neighbor' example also doesn't work for me. If they were the same do you think anyone here would really have to debate what's rude? You may perceive a comment on a site as rude but you really don't/can't know the intent of it's author. You can't look them in the eye, see their facial expression, body language, etc. It's a different type of interaction, and really, rather anonymous. With the possible exception of the handful of people here that I've actually met, the simple reality is that I don't know any of you, nor you I.
    Last edited by sblake01; 10-09-2009 at 06:20 AM.
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    My earlier post was comletely generic and I stand on those statements...that being said I have no clue what thread is specifically being discussed here so I have no input nor opinion on any of that.
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    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hls30.com View Post
    He has been a long time Z enthusiast-since well before the proliferation of computer based car clubs. He appears to be somewhat inexperienced in computerease, but quite well versed in Z.
    I didn't get that impression at all. In fact, I have just the opposite impression. Weren't we talking about how the cars had been sitting in storage for all these years without any knowledge of their significance? How do you get from that to "well versed in Z"?

    As I posted on the Connecticut site; we play hardball on ClassicZ. He knew what he was getting into.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montezuma View Post
    This board is very polite...you want rude got to Hybridz.com, those guys are ruthless. I know that I come to boards for information on Z cars if somone tries to get rude with me I simply just move on, I got so many more important issues in life I don't need cyber problems too. On this board people in general are very nice and informativie. The thing seems to drive some crazy is using threads from 3 and 4 years ago as a starting point.
    I really like Hybrid Z because the focus is on technically correct answers and modifying the Z to be faster, which is what I go to Z forums for. There are occasionally head butting type arguments there and I've been in a few, but at the end of the day it's not about telling someone else they're stupid. It's about finding the right answer to the question. My guess is that if you caught flak at Hybrid Z it's probably your own fault. For the record, I hung up my Hybrid Z admin spurs, so don't complain to me about it... Hybrid Z is not the end of the road for no BS tech info type forums. Try corner-carvers.com if you want to get a serious beat down for not bringing relevant technical info.

    I think the thing that annoys me most about forums in general is when people post without searching or post and title their thread "Question about Z cars" or some other nebulous thing like that. If you post "Length of stock wheel stud" or "spline count of 280Z stub axle" then the next guy can find what he's looking for when he searches before he posts and doesn't have to wonder what is in all the poorly titled posts.

    As far as US-centric posting goes, I wonder what percent of the users here are US based. This forum is out of Oregon, right? Am I wrong in thinking that Americans are the vast majority of the membership? If I was going to shoot from the hip I'd say 80% US. Maybe more. Is that way off? Regardless, I don't read the 240K posts and think "those damn aussies and their AU centric 240K BS" and I don't know why anyone outside the US would feel the slighted by a post I made about a LHD Z car. Similarly, while I occasionally read posts on ozdat.com I have never felt the need to complain about their australo-centric posts. My advice there: try not to be so sensitive, and people in other countries should consider the source of the info they're getting. If someone says 15/16" instead of 24mm, don't get your panties in a wad, just realize that the person who is trying to help you is in the US where we use SAE and to a much lesser extent the metric system. It's not an affront to you. Convert the measurement and be glad that someone was nice enough to give it to you.
    Jon

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