Cricket, Cricket, Cricket

[jay1161970]

Notice the S130 gets no respect.

[d240zx2]

In regards to what?

[Zs-ondabrain]

yup. Noticed it and dealt with it. Can't help it, I'm a Z guy, not enough room in my 20+ brain cells for an additional letter.

But seriously, in regards to what?

[SteveJ]

What kind of "respect" are you looking for? The 280ZX was derivative in styling. Other than the 10th Anniversary & ZXR editions, there isn't much interest from collectors. Many (or most, I'm not sure) came with the 85 MPH speedometer, undercutting the image of a sports car.
As for this board, I'm not sure what you're expecting. ClassicZCars started out as pretty much 240Z only, allowing 260Zs primarily due to those cars having carburetors. It was eventually expanded to cover 280Zs. The 280ZX section came later for the S130 types who wandered by.
Many in the Z community tend to view the 280ZX and Z31 300ZX more as commodity cars, whether or not it's deserved. They weren't the first, and both were surpassed performance-wise. They are the "middle children" of the Z community.
I wouldn't look to give up one of my S30s for a S130, even a turbo. I just don't believe I would be gaining much in the swap.
Steve

[Gary in NJ]

The S30's are sports cars in the purest sense. The S130's were luxury-oriented "sporty" cars. When new they were viewed as softly sprung, overweight and over priced. It was the sports car that Buick never made.

Heck, I barley recognize the S30's with the big bumpers as being S30's. But with proper attention they too can be made more 240-ish.

[jmortensen]

I can tell you one thing that ZX's are great at. Find yourself an auto trans ZX. Put it in reverse, stand on the brake and hit the gas, then put it back in D and hit the gas (still standing on brake). Do this back and forth as many times as you like to amuse your friends as the ass end of the car rises and falls 10". It's like free hydraulics.

[DeMoore]

I can tell you one thing that ZX's are great at. Find yourself an auto trans ZX. Put it in reverse, stand on the brake and hit the gas, then put it back in D and hit the gas (still standing on brake). Do this back and forth as many times as you like to amuse your friends as the ass end of the car rises and falls 10". It's like free hydraulics.

My 86 did that! I didn't even need to press the gas, it did it on it's own when I shifted! Gooooood times. Yeah, that car got towed and I just let them take it. It was nice to drift around a corner, though (bald tires).

[Mike]

Hey, respect the BLACK GOLD moustache, baby!

[grantf]

Hey, respect the BLACK GOLD moustache, baby!

Black Gold!!!!!!!!!!!! that dude is so porn star!
YA BABY YA!

[ovenfood]

i believe the s130 has "potential" as a track/ street racer with the right mods it isnt too bad :> (i personally think the car looks a tad ugly and has to much luxury things and i own one due to the fact if i loose the car into a corner and write it off i wont really shed a tear so i can push it harder than if i was racing my 240k)

[Walter Moore]

Notice the S130 gets no respect.

Yep, the S130 is the Rodney Dangerfield of the Z car world. I personally think that they are under-rated by most people.

But in the interest of full disclosure, I bought a new "sporty" car in 1982, and it wasn't a 280ZX, because at the time I thought they were over priced and under powered. (Unless you went for the Turbo, which was way out of my price range.)

[Arne]

But in the interest of full disclosure, I bought a new "sporty" car in 1982, and it wasn't a 280ZX, because at the time I thought they were over priced and under powered. (Unless you went for the Turbo, which was way out of my price range.)

Interesting. IMO, the S30 and S130 have very different characters. They really did not target the same market segment with the S130.

I was looking for a new car in late 1977, and considered (and test drove) a new 280Z 5 speed. Liked it, but did not buy it, decided to save for a down payment on a house instead.

But in 1981, after being in the house for a couple years, I was again in the market for a new car. Didn't even think about a ZX, as the newer car just wasn't at all the type of thing I was interested it. Ended up buying a Scirocco S instead, the last of the first gen Sciroccos. Must have been the right call, as we kept it for 10 years and only sold it then because our son was getting too big for the back seat.

I tend to prefer light, small and nimble over comfort and luxury. I have never thought of the S130 as any of the first three. Perhaps that's a bit unfair, but that's how I perceive them.

[260DET]

From the little first hand information available to me a stock 280ZX 2+2 was quicker around a race circuit than the equivalent S30 2+0 back in the day. If you read the Nissan book on the development of the S130 its not hard to see why, Nissan developed one from the other while taking into account changes in the market and additional safety requirements. I have owned and modified both although my S130 is an import 2+0 and a lot better looking car than the 2+2 and prefer the S130 mainly because it is structurally, dynamically and aero wise a superior car, plus with some mods looks great. Pics below.

[Gary in NJ]

a stock 280ZX 2+2 was quicker around a race circuit than the equivalent S30 2+0 back in the day.

Speed is not what makes a sports car. If that were the measurement, a Camary would be a better sports car then a Miata.

A sports car is all about the harmony and feedback it provides the driver. In that sense the S130 lost the soul of a sports car.

[zbane]

I'll start by saying that I have never driven an S30, and have sat in only one that is in operational condition. As such, I cannot, nor will I attempt to compare the two for driving dynamics or performance. However, from going from car to car, sitting in the parking lot, I did notice a few little differences.
I felt the S130 had a smaller blind spot and a bit more cargo area. The seats, while different, were comfortable in both cars, though I was able to recline a few degrees more in my ZX than in the 240. I didn't feel as confined/claustrophobic in the ZX, though that may have had more to do with the interior colors than actual interior space.

the S30 and S130 have very different characters. They really did not target the same market segment with the S130.

Different characteristics for different cars, different requirements for different times, though my perception is that Nissan was targeting the same market segment. Most S130s are 2 seaters after all (FYI: My speedo goes to 120), and as far as the US market was concerned, the Z/ZX was the only sports car being sold by Nissan.
Nissan used modern technology and added value to compete with their contemporaries/competitors... (Imagine if MG had done this? That storied marque may have kept its market share from being eroded by Nissan and others... )
Now, aside from the mandated federal changes, the S130 had disc brakes all around, power windows and mirrors, cruise control, and air conditioning as standard equipment. These same items were optional for the 1979 Chevrolet Corvette ( http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1979-corvette1.htm ) and the ZX still had a lower base price...

I tend to prefer light, small and nimble over comfort and luxury. I have never thought of the S130 as any of the first three. Perhaps that's a bit unfair, but that's how I perceive them.

(Bold for emphasis was my doing)

Yes, the S130 is larger all around. It's a bit longer, a bit wider. Yes, it's a bit heavier than the 280Z. It had to be, as emission and safety regulations kept getting tighter (but that's been covered before, as it happened within the S30 model line as well).
I wonder what the weight difference between the two models would be if you were to take my reinforced doors and heavy steel bumpers and (theoretically) put them on an S30...

Personally, I find my S130 to be both comfortable and nimble. I wouldn't balk at driving cross country (assuming all was in proper running order), nor have I ever had any problems with agility... As to being small, the ZX is pretty close to the size of a BMW z3, and they're not big cars...

A sports car is all about the harmony and feedback it provides the driver. In that sense the S130 lost the soul of a sports car.

I am curious: Are you basing this opinion on personal driving/ownership experience or is this simply your opinion? Not trying to impune you, just looking for clarification.

I ask because I know exactly what my S130 is doing, and how it's reacting to the road. Steering is tight, precise, and smooth. Braking is even and strong throughout the pedal's travel, be it a slow stop or an emergency one. The ride feels planted, solid, and surefooted (and not because of the weight). The only time I drove in a pack of Z cars (Tail of the Dragon) I had no problems keeping up with the S30s on the road. I know my car, I know how it will react. I feel more confident driving the ZX in snow and ice than I do my Infiniti I30 with its ABS and traction control. Granted, that's an apples to oranges comparison.
I would be interested to know exactly what the S30 tells it's driver that the S130 is neglecting to mention...

I can tell you one thing that ZX's are great at. Find yourself an auto trans ZX. Put it in reverse, stand on the brake and hit the gas, then put it back in D and hit the gas (still standing on brake). Do this back and forth as many times as you like to amuse your friends as the ass end of the car rises and falls 10".

Another thing they are apparently very good for is providing retrofit parts to S30 owners. Engines, transmissions, R200 differentials, distributors and mounting plates, internally regulated alternators, etc. If you feel the S130 is so horrible and is only worthy of being physically abused, please apply your disdain of the model to all its parts and leave them for those that need and/or appreciate them. Thanks.

(Side note: I wonder if an automatic S30 would behave in the same way. Anyone care to subject their car to this treatment? Solely for comparison's sake, of course!!)

For those of you who have never driven an S130, find one and take it for a drive-just try to do so with an open mind.

I promise that if I ever have a chance to drive an S30, I will not berate it for what it isn't, I will enjoy it for what it is.

[Gary in NJ]

Not to needlessly add to the thread, but since I was asked, I have driven the 280ZX and 300ZX turbo.

I don't like either.

The S30 isn't for everyone either. I happen to think it's a great platform.

[EScanlon]

Well said David.

People forget the "ambiance" of the times.

During the late 70's, Disco was hugely popular and it's shunned with a strong shudder nowdays. I'm not relating Disco to the ZX, but to the fact that there were numerous trends going on during those years that are now, literally, openly scorned at. Mullets, Farah Fawcett long hair on men, bell bottoms, hip-hugger pants for men, hot pants for women, high heeled shoes for men, polyester leisure suits, are but just some of the ones that come to mind as having negative connotations.

Negative connotations... NOW, but back then ....

ZX's were designed, targeted and marketed to the "Yuppies" - Young Upwardly Mobile individuals with $MONEY$ and a desire for a "hot" and "flashy" car that was comfortable. Look at the other cars of the era, the Monte Carlo, the LTD, the Lincoln Mark IV, just to mention the land cruisers, and you can see why COMFORT was so important.

But enough, Z owners have a bad habit, they constantly degrade and disrespect other cars and sometimes, they especially nit-pick their own marque. Is it any wonder that prices for any car in the complete lineup of Datsun/Nissan are always haggled down? It's the owner's themselves.

Until we as the enthusiasts value these cars more, they will not go up in value. As long as they are viewed as disposable cars, they will not be worth keeping...

I'll put it this way, any ZX owner who doesn't like his car, you can give it to me.

E

[d240zx2]

Hey! What's wrong with mullets and bellbottoms?

[SportBikeMike]

Last year I had an '83 280Zx turbo for awhile, and that car handled GREAT. It was a blast on exit ramps! If it wasn't for the automatic transmission, I would have kept that car, and sold my 350.

[superj243]

David is my hero

[ajmcforester]

I'll give the 280ZX this, for the time span it was out it was one of the nicest new cars on the market. I rather own the ZX in those years over the same year Corvette. The Z drove nicer and was more comfortable, and that is what you bought at that time. It was a bad time in automotive industry for performance, luxury and style was the key. However their was one car in that time I've always wanted to get, that was a Toyota MKII supra.

[5thhorsemann]

Two words, "CHICK CAR"

[ajmcforester]

Two words, "CHICK CAR"

No when I think chick car, I think of Solstice, Ski, Early Tiburons. . . Besides the height difference of girls makes the 280ZX a little less than comfortable for them.

[cygnusx1]

I partly like the S130. Some of them do look great and they make great GT cars for long trips, they have cool tech, but the part I like best is the S130 Turbo engine in my S30. ;-)

[Arne]

Two words, "CHICK CAR"

Totally unwarranted. While I've never cared for or wanted a ZX, there's much more there than a Chick Car. VW New Beetles and Rabbit Cabrios are Chick Cars, not a ZX.

[superj243]

they are chick attention getter cars. but for it to be a chick car it has to have i big back seat!

[Darrel]

I have a '73 240 and an '82 turbo. The '82 goes for long trips and the 240 goes to the track and drives in the mtn roads. The zx has the 4 spd auto and not as much fun on the track, but the turbo is great on the road.

I have driven the 240 to long beach and back. I didn't have any problems except the lack of a radio and a/c.

[240znz]

To me, if a 2 seater ZX is lowered and in gun metal grey, then they look a million dollars.

The 2+2 ZX and in fact any other Z in 2+2 configuration looks wrong.

I also like the idea of a slightly modified L28 with a hair dryer attached. Wouldn't that be a nice tourer?

[503Alex]

I'll start by saying that I have never driven an S30, and have sat in only one that is in operational condition. As such, I cannot, nor will I attempt to compare the two for driving dynamics or performance. However, from going from car to car, sitting in the parking lot, I did notice a few little differences.
I felt the S130 had a smaller blind spot and a bit more cargo area. The seats, while different, were comfortable in both cars, though I was able to recline a few degrees more in my ZX than in the 240. I didn't feel as confined/claustrophobic in the ZX, though that may have had more to do with the interior colors than actual interior space.



Different characteristics for different cars, different requirements for different times, though my perception is that Nissan was targeting the same market segment. Most S130s are 2 seaters after all (FYI: My speedo goes to 120), and as far as the US market was concerned, the Z/ZX was the only sports car being sold by Nissan.
Nissan used modern technology and added value to compete with their contemporaries/competitors... (Imagine if MG had done this? That storied marque may have kept its market share from being eroded by Nissan and others... )
Now, aside from the mandated federal changes, the S130 had disc brakes all around, power windows and mirrors, cruise control, and air conditioning as standard equipment. These same items were optional for the 1979 Chevrolet Corvette ( http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1979-corvette1.htm ) and the ZX still had a lower base price...


(Bold for emphasis was my doing)

Yes, the S130 is larger all around. It's a bit longer, a bit wider. Yes, it's a bit heavier than the 280Z. It had to be, as emission and safety regulations kept getting tighter (but that's been covered before, as it happened within the S30 model line as well).
I wonder what the weight difference between the two models would be if you were to take my reinforced doors and heavy steel bumpers and (theoretically) put them on an S30...

Personally, I find my S130 to be both comfortable and nimble. I wouldn't balk at driving cross country (assuming all was in proper running order), nor have I ever had any problems with agility... As to being small, the ZX is pretty close to the size of a BMW z3, and they're not big cars...



I am curious: Are you basing this opinion on personal driving/ownership experience or is this simply your opinion? Not trying to impune you, just looking for clarification.

I ask because I know exactly what my S130 is doing, and how it's reacting to the road. Steering is tight, precise, and smooth. Braking is even and strong throughout the pedal's travel, be it a slow stop or an emergency one. The ride feels planted, solid, and surefooted (and not because of the weight). The only time I drove in a pack of Z cars (Tail of the Dragon) I had no problems keeping up with the S30s on the road. I know my car, I know how it will react. I feel more confident driving the ZX in snow and ice than I do my Infiniti I30 with its ABS and traction control. Granted, that's an apples to oranges comparison.
I would be interested to know exactly what the S30 tells it's driver that the S130 is neglecting to mention...



Another thing they are apparently very good for is providing retrofit parts to S30 owners. Engines, transmissions, R200 differentials, distributors and mounting plates, internally regulated alternators, etc. If you feel the S130 is so horrible and is only worthy of being physically abused, please apply your disdain of the model to all its parts and leave them for those that need and/or appreciate them. Thanks.

(Side note: I wonder if an automatic S30 would behave in the same way. Anyone care to subject their car to this treatment? Solely for comparison's sake, of course!!)

For those of you who have never driven an S130, find one and take it for a drive-just try to do so with an open mind.

I promise that if I ever have a chance to drive an S30, I will not berate it for what it isn't, I will enjoy it for what it is.

Great post David. I'm an S30 owner and am a fan of the S130. We're all part of the Z family!

[FricFrac]

Unfortunately S30 guys the S130 is on the rebound. I had one 18 years ago and no one could care less about them then. Now my project S130 get just as many looks as my fully restored '72 240Z. I get stoped at traffic lights, cross walks, parking lots, etc - anywhere the car and people are in close proximity. Problem with the S130 is that they seem to be worse than a ten year older S30 for rust. So although they made A LOT of S130 (because they were undeniably popular in their time) not many have survived. They are less common on the roads than an S30 because no one use to put much effort into them like the S30. That is changing now. There aren't many project S30s left and there is a lot to be said for a less expensive S130. There is a new generation discovering these cars and they are starting to become quite popular.

I think some of us forget the history of the Z car or only know the bit about the particular car we own. It's a long and impressive lineage and the S130 is part of that lineage. Times were changing and YOU the consumer at the time demanded luxury in your sports cars and Nissan answered the call with the many luxury and high tech advances in the S130. Nissan has always been inovative and competative with their sports cars - look at the current 370Z and GTR and the technology/price you get. Asthetics are infintely debateable and every car has its fans and haters based on what they look like. Who though anyone would ever love an AE86 but it has a cult following now.

Weight gained by saftey restrictions is nothing new and it's difficult to avoid. The 280ZX in base form wasn't much different in weight from the 280Z. Strip off the luxury and you can loose a lot of weight on an S130. The S130 is also undeniably superior in its body design for areodynamics. While the S30 looks aerodynamic but that's where it ends - looks. The drag is poor (a Range Rover Classic and a Toyota pickup has a lower drag than an S30!) and the lift is worse! Anyone that has taken a stock S30 up to any significant speed will soon find out about the lift coefficient....

The mushy suspension of a stock S130 IS absolutely horrible but when you change struts and springs you totaly change the car's responsiveness and it's well on it's way to being a "sports car" again. First mod I would do to any S130 by a long shot.

The L28ET... well there is no sense in going there - we already know you S30 guys are running our motor in your car..... a $1000 in an L28ET will get you more power than $5000 in an L24.... and it will start flawlessly each time.

I've don't have a Z31 (looking for an '88 Shiro) or a Z33 (don't particularly care to own one at this point in time) but I do own every other Z car. The S30 and the S130 are as close to each other as the Z33 and the Z34. Brother's shouldn't be fighting with each other ;P

I'll tell you IMHO the #1 problem with the S130. It's not its weight or luxury items its price or its rust. The #1 problem - it's stance. The 240Z throw a set of wheels on it and they fit the car pretty good. Throw a set of wheels on an S130 and they look OK but the car still doesn't look mean. You need to get the wheels way out by the fender. A lowered S130 on stock rims looks horrific - the wheels are in probably four inches from the fender. Get those wheels out and you totaly transform an S130.....

Stock:


Stock body with Rota RB-Rs:










...and with just a front air damn - stock body otherwise:






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_280ZX

Engineering
The 280ZX adopted suspension similar to that of the concurrent Bluebird 910, with MacPherson struts in front and semi-trailing arm independent in the rear. The wheelbase was down from its predecessor at just 91.3 in (2319 mm) for the two-seater.

The 280ZX's body was redesigned with aerodynamics in mind. By closing in the open grille of the first generation Z-Car and through other improvements taken from wind-tunnel testing, the drag coefficient was reduced from 0.467 to 0.385, and the lift coefficient from 0.41 to 0.14. The new design had a lower center-of-gravity and near 50/50 weight distribution in both 2-seater and 2+2 designs. The rear of the car was stretched to accommodate a larger 80 L (21.133 U.S. liquid gallons) fuel tank. Overall, the new body design gave better fuel economy and high-speed stability (one of the known issues from the first generation Z-car).

Improvements were also made to braking, and steering. The 280ZX initially offered either unassisted rack-and-pinion steering, or Datsun 810-derived recirculating-ball with power assistance. A new power-assisted rack-and-pinion replaced the recirculating-ball steering system for the 1981 Turbo, becoming available on the normally aspirated models the following year.

It is a common misconception that the 280ZX's L28 engine is less powerful than the L24 engine of the 1970 240Z: the difference is due to Nissan adopting the SAE net standard of power measurement, which resulted in lower power ratings than the earlier gross figures and added emissions. However, Nissan designers deliberately sacrificed raw acceleration for improved fuel economy in the 280ZX, so the early 1979 models rated at 145 hp (108 kW) actually had slower acceleration than the 240Z, largely due to increases in weight and emissions control strangling. This overall performance deficit was not addressed until the release of the 280ZX Turbo in 1981.

Net HP Gross HP
240Z 121 151
260Z 130 162
280Z (75-78) 136 170
280ZX NA (79-83) 145 182