Oil / Oil Additive Question

[Oiluj]

Been using Castrol GTX 10-30, but now that then engine is fully broken-in, I'm thinking of adding some ZDDP to protect my cam.
Alternately, I'm considering using a synthetic blend oil such as Royal Purple of Castrol Edge.

Have searched the archives and the web, but it's really hard to come to any real conclusions on what's best, because most of the information is dated...

So what oil or oil addditives are others using and what are your impressions?

I know this is a controversial topic, and apologize in advance if this turns into a food fight...

[Zealous]

Julio, I use Valvoline Vr-1 10w-30 for the ZDDP you mention. You can get it cheap sometimes on Amazon or other online shops, so I stock up when it is on sale.

[Oiluj]

Just found a couple interesting links. Looks like there are 2 good additives that work with both dino-goo and synthetic oils. They are Redline and ZDDPlus.

http://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/EngineOil2.php
http://www.aa1car.com/library/api_mo...ifications.htm
http://www.zddppluscentral.com/
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=121&pcid=1

Think I'll try one of them with Castrol GTX or Castrol Edge...

[doradox]

Plenty of products have a specification for the amount of ZDDP they contain. Is there a single one that makes any claims of actual wear reduction based on the sequence IVA procedure or Sequence IIIG?
http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/GasTest...st/default.htm
http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/gastest...st/default.htm
Note that flat tappet engines are used in these tests. You would think they'd jump all over that if they really did reduce wear over the proper specification oil alone.
It's gotta make you wonder.
I use Valvoline syntec 10-30. My Z seems fine with it and my flat tappet 240SX is going on 251,000 miles and runs like new.

Steve

[Bonzi Lon]

My ZDDP of choice is www.cam-shield.com have been using it with regular oil since the refurbishment. The cost per oil change is about $4, some treatments are as high as $40. Research. The engine now has 10K miles. I will be taking the valve cover off for a look see & photos.

I was convinced to using it (any zinc / ph product) after reading several threads on cam destruction from reduced z&p in the oil over the years. I figured it was inexpensive insurance if there is any chance.

Bonzi Lon

[Oiluj]

Lon,

Thanks for the source. I picked-up a bottle of Redline oil treatment, (W/ ZDDP), yesterday. Plan to do an oil change this weekend and add it in.

[FastWoman]

I'm a believer in synthetic blends. Synthetic oils have polar heads that stick nicely to metal. When you shut down your engine, this keeps some oil stuck to your parts, rather than drained away into the oil pan. Then when you re-start, there's something there to lubricate your engine until the oil pressure comes up. Starting is apparently when most engine wear occurs. I use a blend, BTW, because only SOME synthetic content is needed to achieve this benefit.

That said, I've been running Chevron Delo in my Z, so as to clean up the BBQ grill that the PO sold me. I rather like the oil. Despite the fact it's formulated for a diesel engine, it has the right ZDDP and is high in detergent. I might start using 4 qts of Delo + a qt of Mobil 1, thus creating my own high-detergent, high-ZDDP synthetic blend.

FAIW, I once really liked Castrol GTX for its detergent content. It DID keep my engine very clean. However, I've seen tests (can't remember where) in which Castrol GTX was by far the very worst motor oil tested. The test involved spinning a cylindrical surface (similar to a cam) in a bath of motor oil, and applying another stationary surface to it (similar to a flat tappet) under progressively increasing pressure until the surfaces scored/galled. I swore off Castrol GTX after seeing that test.

[John Coffey]

Oil technology has progressed significantly since 1970. Any SG or higher rated oil is fine.

[Pomorza]

Fast woman,
I too have have seen this test, actually a number of times on different sites and programs. Its actually a rather good test. That being said, I use mobile 5000 in my Z (10W40) with Lucas oil stabilizer as I was told to by an engine guy I know. From what I can tell by taking the valve cover off it makes oil sticky (in a good way) and "should" reduce dry starts. The stuff works from my experience and I don't see a reason to stop.

Also, not to highjack the thread, I've always wondered if diesal oil isn't a good way to go for Z.

Thanks
Jan

[Marty Rogan]

FAIW, I once really liked Castrol GTX for its detergent content. It DID keep my engine very clean. However, I've seen tests (can't remember where) in which Castrol GTX was by far the very worst motor oil tested. The test involved spinning a cylindrical surface (similar to a cam) in a bath of motor oil, and applying another stationary surface to it (similar to a flat tappet) under progressively increasing pressure until the surfaces scored/galled. I swore off Castrol GTX after seeing that test.

Wow!!! I would like to see that test. I have always thought Catrol GTX was a high quality oil. I have been using it in my cars since 1980.

Sounds like I need to find an alternative.

Marty

[John Coffey]

Marty,

The ad in question was either a Slick 50 or DuraLube ad. Both were banned by the FTC for being false and misleading. Go to the FTC web site and check these links regarding SLick50, DuraLube, ProLong, ZMAx, MotorUp, and others.

http://ftcsearch.ftc.gov/search?q=sl...ult_collection

http://ftcsearch.ftc.gov/search?q=du...ult_collection

IMHO, oil additives are BS. FTC kinda feels that way too.

[John Coffey]

All IMHO...

And that pressure bearing test is also a BS test, at least for automotive oils - the FTC nailed them on that too. Its more appropriate for GL5 grease, not for an oiling situation where oil is continually supplied under pressure. They just play on the ignorance of how engine oiling systems are designed to work.

And that "90% of engine wear occurs at start-up" claim is also BS, but for a different reason. Its not due to a lack of oil, its due to a lack of heat. Combustion by products (mostly acids) collect in the upper cylinder area until the engine temps gets beyond the acid's dew point. Once that happens the oil can wash the acids down into the crankcase. Its not due to lack of oil, its due to acidic vapors that the oil can't do anything about until the vapors condense. Again, they play on ignorance.

[beermanpete]

I do not use or care for oil additives. If the additives were essential to reliable engine operation the OEMs would require it. They do not.

[Oiluj]

All IMHO...

And that pressure bearing test is also a BS test, at least for automotive oils - the FTC nailed them on that too. Its more appropriate for GL5 grease, not for an oiling situation where oil is continually supplied under pressure. They just play on the ignorance of how engine oiling systems are designed to work.

And that "90% of engine wear occurs at start-up" claim is also BS, but for a different reason. Its not due to a lack of oil, its due to a lack of heat. Combustion by products (mostly acids) collect in the upper cylinder area until the engine temps gets beyond the acid's dew point. Once that happens the oil can wash the acids down into the crankcase. Its not due to lack of oil, its due to acidic vapors that the oil can't do anything about until the vapors condense. Again, they play on ignorance.

John,

I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. While I'm an ME, lubrication is not a subject where I have much "practical" experience...
Called Dave Rebello today. He basically agreed with what you said above about modern oil technology above. He also suggested the use of an additive, if the particular oil used doesn't have enough ZDDP.

[ta240]

good point, at the very least they'd put the additives in their oil and require you buy their spec of oil.

[Marty Rogan]

All IMHO...

And that pressure bearing test is also a BS test, at least for automotive oils - the FTC nailed them on that too. Its more appropriate for GL5 grease, not for an oiling situation where oil is continually supplied under pressure. They just play on the ignorance of how engine oiling systems are designed to work.

And that "90% of engine wear occurs at start-up" claim is also BS, but for a different reason. Its not due to a lack of oil, its due to a lack of heat. Combustion by products (mostly acids) collect in the upper cylinder area until the engine temps gets beyond the acid's dew point. Once that happens the oil can wash the acids down into the crankcase. Its not due to lack of oil, its due to acidic vapors that the oil can't do anything about until the vapors condense. Again, they play on ignorance.

That was an Ad? I thought they were talking about a controlled test. It even sounds like the test was flawed. Thanks for clearing that up. I found it hard to believe that Castrol GTX was crap. It has been good in my cars since 1980. Not to say that something else may be better. Everybody has a product that they seem to like.

Thanks,

Marty

[FastWoman]

Well, the thing that was compelling to me was the comparison of different motor oils with each other, rather than the comparison of any of the oils with the snake oil du jour. Yes, it was an ad (maybe more of an online infomercial), but yes, it was also a controlled test. As a scientist, I do recognize a controlled test. As I said, Castrol GTX ranked dead last. Was I inspired to buy snake oil? No. But I did rethink the Castrol GTX. I now use mostly Castrol Syntec, except for the Delo I use in the Z. Oh, and the powerboat gets Mobil 1.

Oh, and FAIW, oil is not supplied under pressure to the flat tappets. Therefore I find that test very applicable to cam/tappet wear.

[5thhorsemann]

It's called the "3 ball wear test" and the SAE uses that test to rate oils. The measurements taken are wear, heat generation at different pressures and speeds, and at what point the metals begin to fuse or gaul.

There is another factor that is of concern when you are talking about cars that get driven only on short trips durring good weather, that is the ability of the oil to suspend water in solution. When the hot car is parked, it sucks air into the crank case as it cools, this process is repeated as hot days and cool nights cause the air to expand and contract. condensation forms within the crank. Since the engin block stays cool as it sits, the condensation builds up in the oil pan.

This is the reason I run amsoil 100% synthetic in everything that I own with a motor, of all the oils I looked at, amsoil has the ability to suspend the highest percentage of water in solution at all temps below 212 degrees F, at which point the oil looses the water to vapor. This reduces sludge, wear, and the oil can also better deal with the condensation and acids therein at cold start. Everything gets a fresh dose of oil in the spring and filter replacements based on mileage throughout the year.

I have not had an oil related problem with any of my cars or equipment since I started using this practice, what else can I say.

[doradox]

I have not had an oil related problem with any of my cars or equipment since I started using this practice, what else can I say.

Did you have problems before you started using that practice?

[5thhorsemann]

Actually, yes. I had a Chevy 350 that spun a bearing on valvoline racing blend, and a Ford 351 Cleveland that wiped out the cam bearings on the same stuff. Both motors were relatively fresh with full oil levels and up to date oil changes.

[Free280Z]

I put 400,193.2 miles on a 1991 honda civic DX hatchback and gave the still running good car away to a friend. Castrol 10-w30 was the only oil used. I gave it away because I got a different ride and after you have that much seat time in a car you do get sick of it.

[beandip]

Been using Castrol GTX 10-30, but now that then engine is fully broken-in, I'm thinking of adding some ZDDP to protect my cam.
Alternately, I'm considering using a synthetic blend oil such as Royal Purple of Castrol Edge.

Have searched the archives and the web, but it's really hard to come to any real conclusions on what's best, because most of the information is dated...

So what oil or oil addditives are others using and what are your impressions?

I know this is a controversial topic, and apologize in advance if this turns into a food fight...

On your newly rebuilt engine , I personally would use synthetic and with it it is not necessary
to add the zink. I use Valvoline Racing because my engine has about 60k on it or I would be
using the synthetic. The Racing oil has ZDDP. If you want further info just ask a cam grinder.
Gary