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Thread: Z cars at the Concours

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    Cool Z cars at the Concours

    The purpose of this thread is to discuss Z-cars at Concours events. I know that individual Concours events have been mentioned here on classiczcars.com, but I was hoping to set up a thread that might encompass all of them so that the subject is not so scattered. The goal is to have a Concours thread where people could offer tips, voice their thoughts and opinions, promote local Concours events, and of course show some awesome pictures.

    First off, entering your Z car in a Concours show is really a mixed bag for us Z owners. I remember excitedly talking with bobc about this subject the first time I was accepted into a Concours show. With sage advice, he told me not to get too excited about it. He told me, “most Concours judges have no idea what to look for in a Japanese vehicle. If you tell the judges that the Z cars came from Japan with blacked out engine bays and V-8s, they would believe you”. Of course I dismissed this comment. Lo and behold, at my second Concours show, the winning Z car entry had blacked out engine bay, a lot of chromed engine parts, and was not even painted a standard Z car color. Oh well, I was warned. I still enter the Concours events but try not to get my hopes up too high.

    The other side of this coin is that Concours events can be quite a wonderful event for the Z owner. At one local Concours event, I was one of the few individuals personally interviewed at the event (broadcast throughout the show on the golf course), I received a car identification placard (brushed aluminum) that is nicer than just about any trophy I have received, and the people that I met and spoke with were great. Not to mention an exceptional goody bag, first class photos and web PR, parking on the fairway with an ocean view, and car positioned near the show entrance so that virtually everyone in attendance would walk by and see the car. I thought I had died and gone to car show heaven. Doubt I will ever be in a better show than that.

    Along with the great shows and bad shows, there is one issue that us Z-car owners continue face with car events. This issue seems to be….…should I say it…..discrimination. Take a look at the judged categories for most major Car shows. Of course you have a wide array of US car categories; Ford, Chevy, muscle cars, etc. There is typically a European car category or specifically German and Italian, or Jaguar, Porsche and Ferrari . But do you find Asian or Japanese car categories? Rarely. It’s almost as if Nissan and Toyota don’t exist. I find that very odd, and they have been selling cars for quite some time. Anyway, not sure if we will ever get a clear answer as to why Asian cars are not in the mix, but definitely feeling a little discrimination. Along this line, I will be displaying my Z in the upcoming La Jolla Concours. The only category that my car fit in was the “Preservation” category. Oh well, whatever it takes.

    Anyway, just thought I’d set this up and see where it goes.
    Rich

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    Great start Rich, I look forward to following this thread and seeing what other have to say, I am sure Carl will have some good feedback, since he did Amelia Island with his BRE car.

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    Many, many potential topics of discussion here, some of which I have a little first hand experience with.

    I've attended the Pebble Beach Concours for the last 12 years in a row now, and I regularly either attend or participate in 4-5 Concours events annually. My first observation is quite simply that winners of big shows, and the overall feel of the event, is almost solely determined by the organizers. At Pebble Beach, which by many is considered the premier concours event globally, no post-war car has won Best of Show since the event was organized into it's modern form decades ago, which is certainly so statistically improbable, that it must be due to a natural bias. Most cars are over-restored to standards simply unachievable when the car was new, and this is expected and encouraged. As the organizers point out, it is a Concours d'Elegance- a beauty show. Point being - if a show is organized by a bunch of 70-year old Italians or the like, you can bet there will be little interest in anything other than what they knew and grew up with, which would include zero Japanese cars. Perhaps it is prejudice, but it's also partly a fact of human nature that people covet the cars they lusted after when they were young.

    With respect to the participation of Japanese cars in these types of events, I've also found this to be a mixed bag for several reasons:

    1) Many Concours events have a large focus on pre-1975 - this is an issue when trying to assemble a class for Japanese cars, because there is not a large knowledge base about rare Japanese cars which pre-date this era, nor is there a really large assortment of cars to choose from when compared to cars form other global regions.
    2) There is a predetermination that Japanese cars are all cheap econo-boxes. Certainly some were, however, I think that over time this will be sorted out, as people who grew up with Japanese cars come of the age where they have real disposable income to buy and restore them. Perhaps in 10-15 years we will start to see a shift in how many concours are run to accommodate this.
    3) Many enthusiasts of Japanese cars themselves don't seem to put as high a "price" on originality, which is a staple of a typical concours. Most major concours I've attended place the highest point-value on cars which are properly restored to original specifications. There is frequently a great deal of value placed on a highly and/or tastefully modded car by Japanese car fans. This is not a criticism, just an observation.
    4) Some of the rarest and most desirable Japanese cars are simply unknown to car enthusiasts, or unattainable, or both.

    Plenty more to discuss, these are just some broad brush strokes.
    Last edited by xs10shl; 03-21-2012 at 12:45 PM.

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    I do get the impression that the major shows are starting to give the Japanese cars a bit more recognition. Last year the Palos Verdes Concours had a Japanese car category which I thought was quite significant. It was definitely out of their norm, but nice to see. Espirit placed well in that show.
    Even with the upcoming La Jolla Concours, I was not planning on entering until I spoke with Les Cannady at Classic Datsun Motorsports. He mentioned to me that someone from the show had talked to him about entering some of his cars. That was definitely a pitch for the Datsun brand, so I went ahead and applied – even though there wasn’t a Japanese category.
    It will be interesting to see what happens over the coming years. Hopefully, by the time the Z approaches its 50th birthday, Japanese car categories will be common place at the higher end shows. Time will tell.

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    Japanese cars have had an identity crisis. Think about it. The majority of the success of Japanese cars comes from sales of the cars in adopted markets. They are at best, seen as the successful stepchildren in the American market. They are not first borns here in Concours country. Then there is the prejudice against foreign cars, which we can't deny, still exists in many places. We can pretend it doesn't exist, but unfortunately, it still does. Eventually, new generations, IMHO, will overlook the country-flags of automobiles, and judge without prejudice. However, it's a race against the dying hobby of cars.
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    1) I'll support a few things said above. In two Japanese events I've attended, the stock or nearly stock cars hardly got a second glance. The Highly modified cars with engine swaps got all the glory. Not to unexpected really...
    .
    2) In local "all marque" shows, the humble Nippon cars don't win big honors, but ARE beginiing to see more recognition. Let's face it, judges looking at "best foreign car" will almost always be charmed by a sweet XKE or Healy as opposed to a classic Z. Z's are still too "familiar"... If I were judging, I'd probably do the same thing, especially if there was a pristine XK120 on the field...
    That said, my little Z did win a "sponsor favorite" award last year at a local show and got lots of positive attention.
    Julio
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    Default Z cars at Concours

    I have had the opportunity to show my 240Z in seven concours events in the past few years from California to Florida and I can share some very good experiences if needed. I can attest that each event is different regarding how they select vehicles to participate, class assignments and how they judge them. I have definitely seen a change in interest in Japanese cars and the 240Z so I would encourage anyone who has a car that will qualify and is interested in showing at one they should pursue it.

    Regarding entering an event, it is not unusual to have someone from another concours cruise the car shows in the area and solicit and hand select vehicles to fill their classes. This concours may or may not have a specific Japanese class but that should not be a deterent. One of the rewards is being invited and parking with other very nice cars. I can guarantee you that the Z will get alot of attention so take that in. One key about increasing the interest in the Z is the availability of stock Z's. We all want to personalize our Z's, after all that is probably one reason why we got interested in the Z to start with but with that in mind as you look around at Z specific shows, the availability of a stock, the way it came off the boat, is more and more difficult today so that limits the cars exposure.

    Regarding judging, I have been required to start the car and show that everything is functional and I have had judges that knew little or nothing about a Z to ones that had not only researched the Z but also the car itself to see what other awards and shows it has participated in. Do not be offended it they only give you the once over, like Rich commented, just being there is a good thing.

    Here is a list of the concours events and the various classes that I have participated in:

    Muckenthaler Concours (CA) Japanese Classic
    Huntington Beach Concours (CA) Japanese Classic
    Palo Alto Concours (CA) Sports Cars under $5K
    Winter Park Concours (FL) Special Interest
    Ault Park Concours (OH) Classic Asian
    Louisville Concours (KY) Sports Cars
    Keeneland Concours (KY) Collector Foreign

    I would encourage everyone to take advantage of participating and any and all concours that will accept our cars. It will pay dividends to the Z hobby in the future.
    ZULAYTR

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    P.S.

    One of my most satifying moments at Concours was just after the judges came by and place the Best of Class award on my car, the owner of the European car parked nexted to me was overheard telling their friend "I do not see what the judges saw in THAT car, after all it is Japanese"!!
    After that comment the crystal vase award really did not matter as I knew the Z was now an accepted competitor by the judges.
    ZULAYTR

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    Oiluj, congratulations on your recognition. As you say, many Z enthusiasts would prefer to see modified cars, and get more excited about those types of cars, whereas people who prefer XKEs would rarely (if ever) consider an engine swap. Customs will almost always be relegated into side-show status in a typical Concours, regardless of country of origin. Sometimes, a custom even makes enthusiasts angry - in the Ferrari world, replicas and cars with any type of custom modification are typically publicly ridiculed and derided. Owners of Ferraris that use the wrong sort of hose clamps will be constantly reminded by overeager enthusiasts of this inaccuracy and deficiency throughout the day.

    Good thing is that many Japanese-only concours have embraced a "dual-track" system, where a "stock" and "modified" class exists for each peer grouping. I'm a big proponent of this myself, as it allows for more participation.

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    There is always Concours d’LeMons


    1969 Datsun 1600 Roadster
    This shiny little racer at first seemed to fit the LeMons theme on ironic grounds (Gulf livery on a 1.6-liter?), but then a peek inside revealed the eccentricity that makes it a natural here: airbrushed murals of the car in unlikely backdrops (like next to a Dutch windmill!) painted on the inside door panels. Nice.

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    Hey Rich, I'm sorry if you took what I said as discouragement. Didn't mean it that way. I was just sharing my prior experiences. I was at the Muck one year and one of the judges walked up and said she grew up in Detroit and remembered how much she hated Japanese cars when she was young. That was her greeting to me! Along with my 1970, I had a Vintage Z at the time that came in third!!! They judged on the amount of work the owner did on his car versus the car's originality or finish.

    I believe it's very important to get these cars out to shows if they are ever going to be accepted and increase in value. Fred Jordan worked long and hard to get Japanese cars into shows like the Huntington Beach Concours and displayed at the San Diego Auto Museum. It's also important to restore them to original condition. Z's are great because they are easy to personalize, but as they get fewer and fewer, these customizations hurt the overall value. Ok, that's just my opinion.

    BTW, Zulaytr is being humble. Zulaytr is Bob Speights and he has one of the nicest Z's in the country. It's not over restored (like another car I know in the area) and it is very straight and original. I used to lose to him at shows and it was an honor to do so. It just made me want to make my car better. BTW, I have to share the story that the Z in his avatar was used in several ads including Sports Illustrated. It's his car, but the hubcaps were photoshopped on in the ad. Still have the magazine you gave me Bob, much appreciated!

    When the Interstate driver picked up my Z today, he was pretty surprised. He said he hadn't hauled one before and doesn't see them at the auctions. That means we're either keeping them or there are not that many left that are bringing in the dollars for the new owners to pay for premium shipping.

    Not sure where the values are going to go, but keeping the cars at the shows, particularly at the vintage concours shows couldn't be a bad thing.
    Last edited by bobc; 03-21-2012 at 10:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xs10shl View Post
    4) Some of the rarest and most desirable Japanese cars are simply unknown to car enthusiasts, or unattainable, or both.
    This is a very good point. 'Concours' competition is not really my bag ( although I enjoy the show ) but I've displayed some of my cars in various shows over the years and have often found that people who would otherwise be called 'experts' in the automotive field - including some very respected journalists - haven't got the faintest clue when it comes to most old Japanese cars. And when it comes to the Japanese cars that many Japanese enthusiasts would rank towards the top of the pile, the non-Japanese often have never even heard of them.

    I showed my 1971 KPGC10 Skyline GT-R at the Goodwood Revival Meeting ( on Nissan's stand ) for two years running, and it was a fascinating experience. I think you could safely say that the Goodwood Revival can be ranked as one of the best events in the old car world, and it is attended by many of the world's experts and arch enthusiasts. And yet very very few of the people looking at the car had any idea what it was they were looking at. There were - of course - a very small minority who knew what it was and were most enthusiastic about it, but many of those people also said that they'd never actually seen one in the metal before. Most of their experience of the KPGC10 had been from the internet, and/or from magazines. That's understandable when you consider that there are so few of them outside Japan.

    It was interesting to converse with some of the people who had never even heard of the KPGC10 before. Many of them had no idea that Nissan's 'GT-R' emblem dates back to 1969, and had a rich racing heritage and a comparatively blue bloodline. Some of them dismissed it out of hand, and some of them insisted ( as is so often the case with old Japanese cars ) in trying to find any design detail or engineering that they could point to as a "copy" of something else. It was almost as though they wanted to explain it away, and therefore not have to deal with it. For some car enthusiasts, to start looking into the old Japanese car world is to take a peep into the abyss. The more you look into it, the more bottomless it starts to look. It's all a little frightening for them, and therefore it's better for them to keep a lid on it.

    xs10shl, I don't know how any of your cars could be properly judged in a USA-based concours event? What concours judge is going to know more than you about a KPGC10, KPGC110 or PS30? Even if you entered your PS30 into an S30 series-only class at a Z specialist event, who is going to know enough about that specific model to pick out what's 'factory correct' and what isn't?


    Quote Originally Posted by cygnusx1
    Japanese cars have had an identity crisis. Think about it. The majority of the success of Japanese cars comes from sales of the cars in adopted markets.
    That may well be your impression, but I'd question what it is exactly that you class as "success"?

    If we are talking about now-classic cars, it's more likely that sales in terms of overall volume were achieved in the Japanese market. Japan was always the biggest single market for Japanese cars during the period that applies. If you judge "success" in terms of styling, engineering and dynamic excellence, then it's arguable that the very best that Japan had to offer - the kind of car that many concours competitions are populated with - were either exported in very limited volume, or not exported at all. That's certainly the case with the cars that are most sought after these days, and those that are changing hands for the greatest amounts of money....
    Last edited by HS30-H; 03-22-2012 at 05:14 AM.

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    Success, as in, acceptance, sales, racing, some domination of the national marque, in the country where the Concours event in question is hosted.
    Last edited by cygnusx1; 03-22-2012 at 05:24 AM.
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    That doesn't seem to square with "...The majority of the success of Japanese cars comes from sales of the cars in adopted markets."

    I'm saying that the majority of the success of Japanese cars comes from sales of the cars in Japan, that the best of their design and engineering was sold in Japan, and that the majority of their racing success and racing heritage was in Japan.

    For concours events outside Japan, that will likely hold back the Japanese car in question.

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    How much of Japanese automobile revenue comes from their exports of Automobiles, versus their internal figures? I don't know. Also, how much did the Japanese classics, sold outside of Japan, kick start their automobile economy? How do you think this effects their place in the concours world and how does this affect the concours judges?
    Last edited by cygnusx1; 03-22-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H View Post
    xs10shl, I don't know how any of your cars could be properly judged in a USA-based concours event? What concours judge is going to know more than you about a KPGC10, KPGC110 or PS30? Even if you entered your PS30 into an S30 series-only class at a Z specialist event, who is going to know enough about that specific model to pick out what's 'factory correct' and what isn't?
    Agreed- I myself am not a fan of judging any marque, as there are few "Judges" who know more than the local mechanic who has worked on them for 40 years. There is effectively no written history available in English about JDM cars, so there is no way to learn about them, other than to attempt to buy one. However, one thing that IS surprising is the number of 20 or 30-somethings that rush over to see the Hako whenever I show it. Perhaps it's a weird side effect from all those video games and movies. I'd venture to say there may be as many as 15 c10's on the west coast of the United States, mostly owned by people under 40.

    Instead of concours competition, I focus on elevating Japanese car collecting as a whole, and help build awareness through education and exposure. A small article in Automobile Magazine (which I'm surprised no-one commented on, especially since the dreaded "G" word was used with respect to the Z, against my wishes), and a hopefully larger one coming up this July in another magazine. And of course, "display-only" entries at various concours events. I have a relatively easy time of it in California, where there is already a groundswell of interest in old J-tin.

    To echo your comments about the the best designs being limited to the Japanese market, I almost always begin every presentation with "When it comes to engineering, the Japanese always seemed to keep the best stuff for themselves" . . . even though I'm starting to sway to the opinion that when it comes to s30s, it may actually have been the Portuguese!
    Last edited by xs10shl; 03-22-2012 at 11:45 AM.

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    Instead of speculating on why you don't see the Japanese cars at concours events, why not just ask the event promoters or hosts WHY they choose not to include them? That would probably give you the best idea on how to go and make some change. I think the comments about available experts, documentation, etc. and such is probably correct tho.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cygnusx1 View Post
    How much of Japanese automobile revenue comes from their exports of Automobiles, versus their internal figures? I don't know.
    Well, for the period I think is most relevant to 'concours' competition for Japanese cars outside Japan ( let's say something like the 1955 to 1975 period ) the revenue from domestic sales would far outweigh export sales.

    Quote Originally Posted by cygnusx1
    Also, how much did the Japanese classics, sold outside of Japan, kick start their automobile economy? How do you think this effects their place in the concours world and how does this affect the concours judges?
    I don't want to appear rude, but have you got any idea just how big Nissan's presence in the Japanese market was? It was domestic sales that gave them any "kick start", and domestic sales far outweighed export sales for the period we are talking about. It should not, can not be underestimated.

    As for how that affects their concours judging outside Japan; I would say that if export markets never saw Japan's best and never realised their rightful position amongst their contemporaries, then they are never going to be judged fairly and equitably, let alone with any depth of knowledge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobc View Post
    Hey Rich, I'm sorry if you took what I said as discouragement. Didn't mean it that way. I was just sharing my prior experiences. I was at the Muck one year and one of the judges walked up and said she grew up in Detroit and remembered how much she hated Japanese cars when she was young. That was her greeting to me! Along with my 1970, I had a Vintage Z at the time that came in third!!! They judged on the amount of work the owner did on his car versus the car's originality or finish.
    Hi Bob,
    No, I was not discouraged at all by your comments. Actually I was really glad you prepared me for what to expect. I just laughed and realized that you really knew what you were talking about. As some have mentioned here, each Concours is very different and judges are looking for different things. In hind sight, I just brought the wrong Z to that event. They would have loved the yellow one.

    And honestly, the awards are not really a big deal, it’s the atmosphere, environment and conversations that are the best part. I have met famous and well known people at these events. And, it’s amazing how many of them have owned a Z at one time in their life. Always makes for good conversation and a great experience.

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    Hi Bob,
    Thanks for sharing the experiences you have had with your beautiful car. I wanted to respond yesterday by saying that I can think of but a handful of "stockish" 240Zs that belong at any of the concours events mentioned. I would say the same for modified Zs - a handful. ZRush being a prime example.

    Concours events are traditionally "fashion shows" meaning that originality is far less important than how the car looks. Winning cars evoke an emotional response of beauty far more than award winning nit-picking accuracy. I can never seem to over-emphasize that.

    The Japanese classics, sold outside of Japan, had little (if any) influence on "kick starting their automobile economy". Nissan in particular, looked at the export market to increase business. The Japanese automobile economy was roaring along just fine. Evidenced by how much the Japanese imports took away from domestic American car sales!
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorman7 View Post
    The purpose of this thread is to discuss Z-cars at Concours events.
    Hi Rich:
    Boy - there are so many branches to this discussion!!

    Strictly from my own experience - which has been limited:

    The reason you don't see Z Cars at most of these larger or more exclusive Concours Events - is because there are not more people like BobC, BobS, Rich, Alan and xs10shl who are both willing and able to take #1 / #2 Concours Quality Z's to the events. I don't belive it is because the event organizers don't want them or won't accept them.

    Most of these high end Concours Events are ran to raise funds for different worthy Charities. The organizers usually want to attract the largest possible crowds and the widest possible sponsorship. They do that by having the broadest range of interesting and beautiful cars on the field.

    I believe that as more Collectors finish up their Concours Quality Z Cars - you'll see them at more of these events. It has already been happening for the past 5 or more years.

    Also - as xs10shl I believe correctly pointed out - a lot depends on who the organizers are and what they are interested in. Over the years that group does change... and we will see more Z Car fans among them in the future. That could be hastened if more Z Car Guys would go volunteer at these events and become more involved in their planning etc.

    For example; One person is a Judge at both Pebble Beach and Amelia Island - he is also a Vintage Z owner. One person that is a key organizer at Ault Park is on our 240Z Original Owners Register. The main mover and shaker at Amelia is a former SCCA competitor and has always had a real interest in the SCCA C & D Production, as well as the Cam/Am cars, from the late 60's and early 70's - where the DATSUN's were key competitors.

    Because of the vast array of Classic Cars that show up at these events - it is simply impossible to have an "expert" there to judge every one of them on the basis of being pure stock or perfectly "original". Many of these cars represent 1 of only a handful that were produced or which still exist today. The only documentation, if any exists at all - is that complied by the guy that restored the car. So Judging at most of these events is nothing like Judging a Stock Class at a Marque Only event. Again as xs10shl pointed out - it's a beauty contest. {it is also many times a buddy contest}. For that reason - I usually enter my Z "for display" and enjoy the day.

    I also agree completely with everyone - you take your Z to these events to enjoy the company of fellow car nuts. Meet lots of nice people, get to see lots of simply splendid automobiles and hope that more people will think of the Z Cars in terms of Classic's - a thing of timeless beauty.

    One downside - is that many of these Events can be personally expensive to support - but you have to think of it as your contribution to the Charity involved.

    Come on you guys - how about some pictures at the events!
    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H View Post
    xs10shl, I don't know how any of your cars could be properly judged in a USA-based concours event? What concours judge is going to know more than you about a KPGC10, KPGC110 or PS30? Even if you entered your PS30 into an S30 series-only class at a Z specialist event, who is going to know enough about that specific model to pick out what's 'factory correct' and what isn't?
    That electronic distributor module sure isn't, on the PS30! And neither is the exhaust! However, the only reason I know that is from the mechanic (Matt?) telling me, which somewhat reinforces Alan's point (not like I'm a judge or an expert though). Looking into an engine bay of a 432 (or C10/C110 GTR) is immeasurably fascinating, especially for a Z owner. However, some random judge (let alone an "enthusiast") at some car show will almost surely have no clue what they're looking at, especially on a Japanese car that was never sold in the US. They'd probably say, "looks nice" and move on. Get them next to a Pontiac GTO, Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, etc. and they'll drool and remark all day long, and it's because that's what they know. Alan brings up a good point, the vast majority of people in the US just don't know these cars very well, hell most probably don't know they exist!


    Quote Originally Posted by xs10shl View Post
    Agreed- I myself am not a fan of judging any marque, as there are few "Judges" who know more than the local mechanic who has worked on them for 40 years. There is effectively no written history available in English about JDM cars, so there is no way to learn about them, other than to attempt to buy one. However, one thing that IS surprising is the number of 20 or 30-somethings that rush over to see the Hako whenever I show it. Perhaps it's a weird side effect from all those video games and movies. I'd venture to say there may be as many as 15 c10's on the west coast of the United States, mostly owned by people under 40.

    Instead of concours competition, I focus on elevating Japanese car collecting as a whole, and help build awareness through education and exposure. A small article in Automobile Magazine (which I'm surprised no-one commented on, especially since the dreaded "G" word was used with respect to the Z, against my wishes), and a hopefully larger one coming up this July in another magazine. And of course, "display-only" entries at various concours events. I have a relatively easy time of it in California, where there is already a groundswell of interest in old J-tin.

    To echo your comments about the the best designs being limited to the Japanese market, I almost always begin every presentation with "When it comes to engineering, the Japanese always seemed to keep the best stuff for themselves" . . . even though I'm starting to sway to the opinion that when it comes to s30s, it may actually have been the Portuguese!
    Your garage is a godsend! I'd love to own a C10 someday, but for now I am very happy to be able to enjoy them in the flesh! I don't know what it is about classic Japanese cars that attracts certain people, but for me the attraction comes from not only great design and engineering, but also it being a relatively unexplored realm of automotive goodness. As was mentioned earlier, many Japanese cars had a lot of succcess in domestic markets and domestic racing but they were either not brought over to the US or did not have big racing/sales success in the US (GTRs, Bellets, 2000GT, Original Honda S-series, etc., this list can get very long). I feel like there is modesty and dignity in these classic Japanese cars, as strange as that sounds, because they have a very rich heritage but they do not "brag" about it. Only those in the know appreciate them for what they are. While it seems as though we want to change that, I find it captivating. There's always something new or interesting to learn about the old Japanese car sitting in the back (or front!) of the garage.

    Those are my 2 cents. Interesting thread!
    Last edited by LeonV; 03-22-2012 at 03:51 PM.
    2/74 260Z

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post

    Come on you guys - how about some pictures at the events!

    Carl B.
    I love the pictures. This is a re-post, but this is my Z at the 2011 Dana Point Concours. Entered in the Post WWII-pre 1972, sports cars under 3 liters class.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonV View Post
    That electronic distributor module sure isn't, on the PS30! And neither is the exhaust! However, the only reason I know that is from the mechanic (Matt?) telling me
    I'll have a little chat with Matt and teach him the phrase, "Yes, it's absolutely bone stock" for the next show. Doubt anyone would notice, .

    [HIJACK]
    Just as a side story, the Japanese aftermarket ignition module recently crapped out on us days before a photoshoot, so I spent the weekend cursing, yanking parts off, and trying to retrofit an MSD box to it. All's well that ends well.
    [/HIJACK]

    Back to concours-talk.

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    Here is a nice shot of your car motorman7. Some good zoom to.
    http://www.automotivetraveler.com/ma...ncours&page=24
    Last edited by black gold man; 03-22-2012 at 04:50 PM.

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    Wow,,,all this beauty ,,,,I need a cig now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xs10shl View Post
    I'll have a little chat with Matt and teach him the phrase, "Yes, it's absolutely bone stock" for the next show. Doubt anyone would notice, .

    [HIJACK]
    Just as a side story, the Japanese aftermarket ignition module recently crapped out on us days before a photoshoot, so I spent the weekend cursing, yanking parts off, and trying to retrofit an MSD box to it. All's well that ends well.
    [/HIJACK]

    Back to concours-talk.
    Don't worry, I don't want to get Matt in trouble! He actually told me when I stopped by the garage one day, because he was mentioning the module crapping out on you!
    2/74 260Z

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    The Alfa, looks like my dad's Duetto that he brought over from Italy, when he moved here. I wonder. It's the car I spent the first three years of my life commuting in. I had a wooden box behind the two seats that formed my crib (coffin). I think it explains a lot of the rest of my life...leaden exhaust fumes, 100db wind noise, and raspy exhaust notes, in high doses for my first three years.

    Your Z looks majestic amongst the others.
    Dave C, Putnam, NY
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    Carl

    Here are a few shots that have been taken of Z's and other classic Japanese cars at some of the Concours events I mentioned. While they may not all be stock but they all share one thing in common....having a passion to promote the cars we love and cherish.
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    ZULAYTR

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    BELOW: A picture from Amelia - Race Cars 1963 to 1972


    BELOW: One of my favorite pictures - a fellow 240Z Enthusiast {RIGHT} helping me re-polish the Mag.'s - after the car was put on the show field in a very early morning fog. The moisture in the air just flashes the polished Mag's to a dull silver. THANKS WILL!! BTW - we didn't see anyone pitching it to help the poor guy that brought that Ferrari... Z Car People are great!


    BELOW: Peter Brock and I spent some time on the Beach at Amelia Island - This is just one of my personal favorites... I was telling Mr. Brock to hold his stomach in - like this! We were laughing so hard a friend had to take the picture three times. The wind was blowing about 30 knots that day as well!


    BELOW: A picture from the Mirror Lake Concours d'Elegance, in Lakeland, Florida. Note the Group 44 cars down front. The TR-6 is the car that Paul Newman drove.

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    Great photos, Carl!

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    Why not stage your own concours for Z cars or otable Japanese cars? You could make a difference. You could even get yourself noticed!

    YOu could even call it ZCON?
    Drive Responsibly.
    enjoy classic Rock music.

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    Got my Z in a short promotional piece by NBC for the La Jolla Concours

    http://www.nbcsandiego.com/video/#!/...ance/145159165

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    Hey Rich - THAT'S GREAT!!.... Way to go!!

    Carl B.

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    Keep those pic's and videos coming - great thread!
    Life's a journey; enjoy the ride!

    Mitchell
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post
    Hey Rich - THAT'S GREAT!!.... Way to go!!

    Carl B.
    Thanks Carl! I was glad they got some nice shots of the car during the interview. The vice chairman of the Concours who did the interview really loved my car, which is great. The spot came at a price though, I lost a hubcap on the way there. That was stressing me out as the show is this Sunday. Fortunately, a Z-guy up in Anaheim answered my Craigslist add and was able to set me up with two replacements (one for spare) for $160. And they are near a perfect match. I will post pics of them later. Anyway, with the new hubcap, I am now ready for the show tomorrow.

    I love pic of yours with you and Peter Brock on the beach! That front view of the car is awesome.

    Best regards,
    Rich

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    Hey Carl, what is the tube sticking out of the lower fender behind the front left wheel of your BRE rally car?
    Lee - 2/72 240Z

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    Default New hubcap

    Just thought I'd show pic of the hubcap I picked up on short notice for tomorrows show. Very nice match. It has the extra tangs on the back, but don't think most people will notice - hopefully not the judges. The Air filler hole is in the right spot. That was one of my biggest concerns. Big thanks to Martin in Anaheim.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenZZZ View Post
    Hey Carl, what is the tube sticking out of the lower fender behind the front left wheel of your BRE rally car?
    Hi Lee:
    That is a mounting point for service jackstands. There is one at each wheel. Here is an example of the application from McKlein-imagedatabase.com


    This is what the BRE Baja Z's look like:
    BRE BAJA Z - Model by Rick Correia

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    Default La Jolla Concours

    Just got back from the La Jolla Concours. I will start off with a bit of eye candy here first, then tell you how it went for the Z.
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    Default LJ Concours Part 2

    More Candy
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    Default LJ Concours final

    I have to say that this has turned out to be a pretty incredible event for me. I got some good air time on local NBC on friday as noted earlier in this thread. However, today at the show I was one of the few featured entrants on the local KUSI station. They actually asked some questions about the car and I was able to tell a bit of the cars background and history on live TV at the show. It was about a one minute spot. Soon after the interview, I got a text from Lenny of ZCSD (Z Club of San Diego) congratulating me on the interview he just saw on TV. And later during the show people said they saw me on TV, so that was super cool. I am now famous.

    Anyway, I was entered in the preservation class as were the other cars shown below (no Japanese class). I figured the Bentley was first place, but was not sure how the rest would play out. I wasn't really all that concerned as I honestly did not feel worthy to be there among the majority of these cars. So, when they announced the awards, the yellow 450SL got third...then the Bentley was announced as second....and then the announcer began to say, "This next car brought about the demise of the British sports car industry......" Wow, what a rush. This is my first, First Place win at a concours, very exciting. Still don't think it has all settled in, especially given the competition. It really is a great win for the Z community. Hopefully this is an indication of things to come for the Z cars.
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    Last edited by motorman7; 04-01-2012 at 07:31 PM.

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    Incredible! I feel like throwing a party. I can't imagine how happy you are.
    Dave C, Putnam, NY
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    Congratulations on the first place award. The Z is gaining more and more respect in the concours communities across the country so your efforts to push the door open even wider for others to follow has been well rewarded. The Z, I am sure, received alot of attention from the public as it is a car that many can directly relate to. Keep waving the flag, it is well deserved.

    Congratulations again,
    ZULAYTR

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    motorman7..... CONGRATZ...........makes my addiction to my 72 240 stronger and dam proud of it....
    Last edited by 72 OJ; 04-01-2012 at 08:07 PM.

  46. #46
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    Hey Rich,

    Congratulations on winning first place against some very nice cars. You have a beautiful car so it was well deserved. Thank you for helping to add to the credibility of our Z cars and getting them more recognition at concours events like this one.

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    Thanks everyone for the congrats. I am still enjoying the victory here.

    I did want to add, for those who are considering entering the Concours shows, that there are often a number of great activities that precede the shows that are a lot of fun. Some of those events are included in the price of admission for your car. At the La Jolla event, there was a FREE reception the night before for all of the participants. The reception was catered by some of the top restaurants in La Jolla, and all the drinks were free as well, wine, margaritas, tequila shots, vodka thingies and whatever. The food was incredible and my wife and I went back for seconds and thirds for most items. My wife rarely attends the car shows with me, but she could not stop talking about how awesome the reception was. She called all her friends and sisters and had to tell them about it. When I told her the chairman invited me back for next years show, she said we were definitely going to go…..just for the reception. Anyway, just thought I would pass that on .

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    Congrats Rich, that is outstanding!!! Beautiful car. It is also a great thing that you could get your wife to go along and actually enjoy it too!

    That is an unbelieveable score to get 2 mint series I hubcaps for $160. You must be living right, there in Southern CA.

    Marty

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    WOW! Congratulations Motorman!

    And its not like you were beating up on mashed potatoes either!


    Chris

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    Valentines day. Auckland 2010. Seduction !!!



    Last edited by olzed; 04-02-2012 at 04:30 PM.

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    Hi Rich:
    Congratulations!! You rightfully have to be very happy with that showing. We are all proud of you!! Thanks for posting the pictures - there are some wonderful cars there and The Z Belongs in such company!!

    I think that most of the larger and better known Concours Events - have the experience to assure that our Wives are happy to be there. Great that you could enjoy the event and time together.

    Oh.. yes.... 2 show quality "D" hubcaps for $160.00 - you should count him as a sponsor. ;-)

    So what's next everyone?

    Carl B.

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    [QUOTE=olzed;394490]Valentines day. Auckland 2010. Seduction !!!

    Hi olzed:
    Great looking Z - please tell us more about the Event {who, what, when and where}, the staging of the car and the car itself.

    thanks,
    Carl B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post

    So what's next everyone?

    Carl B.
    If anyone on this forum and thread will be in Cincinnati Ohio on Sunday, June 10th, I will have my Z at the Ault Park Concours. It is a great show for both vehicle owners and the attending public. They have several great supporting events. Stop by and say hello.
    ZULAYTR

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    Hi Carl. Thanks. My wife and I love our wee Z .We have owned it for 12 years now. It had a bare metal refurb back then.
    We have won many Club trophies over the last 11 years. Best in show nine years.
    We are the fourth owner. First owner was a prominent business couple in Auckland. ( from new these were expensive cars in NZ)
    The chap I bought it from raced speedway bikes back in the 60s.
    I like knowing something of the cars history.
    It clicked back to zero miles when we first bought it and drove it home. We have since clocked up a further 20,000 mls.

    There are only a small hand full of S30s in NZ. Few 240Zs

    The pictures are from an annual Intermarque Concours held at Ellerslie Racecourse, which is in Auckland, our biggest city.
    They have a category for those not competing in the concours proper, and these are themed displays.
    The theme for 2010 was Valentines Day. We chose the seduction scene, because the massacre scene was the wrong era for our 70s Z Club cars.lol
    We had my red 72 in the black marquee, with a black background, and rose petals spread over the whole area, where we had six or so other Club cars as well.
    Her lingerie was spread throughout the car, as was his shirt.
    I was giving free kisses. Hersheys!!! Got a couple of real ones as well.
    People seemed to enjoy our display, and we had a lot of positive comments.

    The Z movement is alive and well here in NZ

    Sorry I have no pictures of the concours cars, but there are very many exotic cars contesting the prizes.


    Another picture


    Another show



    Ready for another show



    The Z Club recently had a small group winery tour and lunch with a Zed couple from US. Excellent day.



    Brian.
    Last edited by olzed; 04-02-2012 at 07:49 PM.

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    Congrats Rich! Well deserved. May have to get another one someday. Always looking!

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    Quote Originally Posted by olzed View Post
    Hi Carl. Thanks. My wife and I love our wee Z .We have owned it for 12 years now. It had a bare metal refurb back then.
    We have won many Club trophies over the last 11 years. Best in show nine years.
    We are the fourth owner. First owner was a prominent business couple in Auckland. ( from new these were expensive cars in NZ)
    The chap I bought it from raced speedway bikes back in the 60s.
    I like knowing something of the cars history.
    It clicked back to zero miles when we first bought it and drove it home. We have since clocked up a further 20,000 mls.

    There are only a small hand full of S30s in NZ. Few 240Zs
    {....snipped..ckb..}
    Hi Brian:
    Thanks for the very interesting story and great pictures. Speaking of Z Visitors - A fellow Z Car enthusiast from NZ, Steve Chong and his wife visited us here in Flordia a few years ago. They really wanted to see a Shuttle Launch, which was of course delayed - so they extended their vacation a bit. Nonetheless it was great seeing them... If you get to the US - be sure to stop by...



    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    Hey Carl. Small world . I know Steve well. Lives in Auckland, and a Z Club member as well.

    Yes we will certainly look you up when we get to the US. Thats them and a nice picture. Thanks.

    Brian.
    Last edited by olzed; 04-03-2012 at 12:58 PM.

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    Hey Rich. Well deserved.What an awesome award.
    Randy Taylor
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    Thanks Randy. I was fortunate that they had a Preservation Class at this event, otherwise it would have been difficult to even qualify or compete.

    There are not too many concours that have a Post War Preservation class. I noticed that the Dana Point has Pre-war preservation class, but no Post war. (I am assuming they don’t mean the Iraqi war or Vietnam) I would like to enter that one again as it was worth the entry fee last year just to sit on the fairway and overlook the ocean. There is little possibility of winning though as about 95% of the cars at a concours are restored cars. It’s tough to compete with the two stage paint and triple chrome plated restorations when you’re running 42 year single stage and thin chrome. Jay is probably the only one that I know of that would do well there. It wouldn’t hurt to have some roadsters at these events either. SoCalRoc has a number of nice cars that could do well. Either way, it would be nice to see a little more Japanese representation in the Post War, under 3 litre, category. Both Roadsters and Z’s would qualify; hey even Mazda’s or Toyotas would work.

    Anyway, thanks again,

    Rich

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    Congratulations Rich, your time and effort in the car deserve it. You are very lucky to find the wheel covers in time & a great price. I imagine he lived on Cheap St. in Barginville, right?

    In the Spring 2012 'Hagerty Magazine' page 11 has an brief on 'Youth Concours Judges.' In part...

    "Hagerty's Operation Ignite! Youth Judges have been busy, too. They recently walked the show fields at Boca Raton and Amelia Island concours, learning to judge classic cars while interacting with owners and experts. In May, (5th) the youth judges will attend the McPherson College CARS Club Car Show in McPherson, Kansas, with summer dates to follow."

    I will be attending for the 3rd time. It will be interesting to see how the Z does. This is a show with everything you could ever imagine. This year they are focusing on the concours restorations. It will be interesting to see what will show up, as in the past I have been astounded by what is hiding in shops & garages here in the middle of the Country.

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    Don't be ranting the judges must be blind because they are.
    This show is three miles down the road from me at end of 8 mile. At the FORD house.

    Here is a concours type event with z cars and other Japanese cars mingling with the aristocrats .


    EyesOn Design Auto Design Show








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    2006


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    Honored Recipient: Shiro Nakamura, Vice President and Chief Creative Officer, Nissan Motor Co.

    Last edited by black gold man; 04-05-2012 at 02:12 PM.

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    Will we see TWO cars there next year?
    Drive Responsibly.
    enjoy classic Rock music.

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    This is the link to the La Jolla Concours 2012 winners page. It's awesome to see the Z amongst that group of vehicles . Thrills the tar out of me. Thanks again everyone for all the congrats.

    http://www.lajollaconcours.com/new/c...tid=2017752898

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    Thanks for the link. A''Z''in great company and heavy iron, it makes me dam proud in owning one ,not a show piece but a looker and a blast to drive

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    A comment was made earlier that concours judges do not understand the cars enough to judge them.
    I find the problems on the internet and at all z shows, that people truly do not know what is a stock Z.
    There is so much misinformation out there, I appreciate all of you gentlemen with such beautiful cars educating the rest of us.

    Fred
    ZCCA Head Stock Judge

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    You should look at the "unrestored" cars.

    I was looking at one (a 1917 electric car) once, and a stupid old lady said, "Look at that old floor, with those big cracks (between the wooden floorboards.) This car should be junked."

    Some people just don't understand what the different kinds of shows, or their entry categories, are about. They mostly think a "show car" is about the same as a "new car."

    I'll take a neatly-welded rat-rod or a clean model T over any new Corvette or shiny whatever any day. Even a rusted rat-rod; some people have made rusty cars a kind of art form.
    Drive Responsibly.
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    Some people do have their misconceptions about Zs (see the "Weird Myths or Facts about your Z car" topic) and they essentially do some harm to the reputation of the marque. One guy tried to convince ME that the casting marks on my intake manifold were actually welds because "so many of these cracked after the were driven."
    Drive Responsibly.
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    s Mr. And then there's people like Mr. George Barris.

    Remember the Car Warriors TV show where they customized 240Zs? Even after they outrageously customized both cars, Mr. Barris (a custom- and show-car "expert") says, "They're still Datsuns!"

    Regardless of how rediculous or out-of-style the two 240Zs were, that comment didn't show any respect for the most popular marque in sportscars.
    Drive Responsibly.
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    Hello Rich,

    Congratulations on the first place award!!!
    Esprist
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    www.jdm-car-parts.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by zpizzaman20 View Post
    A comment was made earlier that concours judges do not understand the cars enough to judge them.
    I find the problems on the internet and at all z shows, that people truly do not know what is a stock Z.
    There is so much misinformation out there, I appreciate all of you gentlemen with such beautiful cars educating the rest of us.

    Fred
    ZCCA Head Stock Judge
    Hi Fred:
    I've heard that comment before and in many cases it may be true.

    I'll add that there is a difference between "Concours" and "Stock" Events and Judging. As someone else mentioned a Concours is a Beauty Contest.

    I had the pleasure of taking to one of the people that is a Judge at both Pebble Beach and Amelia Island. He is also the owner of one of the Vintage Z's and a huge fan of Mr. K not the mention having a rather impressive private collection of Classic/Collectible and Special Interest cars himself.

    Judges not knowing what is pure "Stock" or "Original" to any specific car is not at all uncommon at the Best Concurs Events. In fact it is mostly the case. They leave the judging of "Stock" or "Original" to the marque clubs, or the Antique Car Clubs like AACA for the most part. No doubt that at least a couple of recognized experts exist somewhere in the world for almost every car made or mass produced - - but they are not usually available or attending every Concours event.

    The Judges at the Concours Events - ask the owners about their cars - and for the most part the owners are honest in their responses. It is more the preparation and presentation of the car, plus it's inherent beauty that counts on that day, with those Judges at a Concours Event.

    On the other hand - it's people like you that have to judge what is "Stock" or "Original" on any specific Z at National Level Z Car Events, or The guys at the National Level Corvette Shows etc.. It's the Judges at the Antique Automobile Club of America that focus on historically correct examples.

    Take Dan's Banks car - already Judged by the ZCCA and the AACA - to a Concours event - and the Judges at that Concours Event would take the ZCCA's & AACA's word for it being "Stock" or "Original" - then on top of that they would look at preparation and presentation as well as the inherent beauty of the design.

    So - bottom line - Keep up the good work - down the road many others will depend on your judgment. I do agree that it would be nice if not helpful to have the Z equivalent to the Corvette Back Book. Maybe when you retire again - you can work on that.

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    Saturday was a beautiful sunny day for a car show in McPherson, KS. Not too many imports, however a nice Ferrari, 2 Porsche's away, had plenty of attention. One of the admirers was Wayne Carini, see photo. He went all over it with the owner and onlookers. It was a western KS barn find.

    He was walking down the sidewalk talking to another when his eye caught my car, stopped in his tracks and said, "Wow!" He walked over, introduced himself and started with the compliments. We talked Z car, Z history, my car, for at least 5 minutes. He was genuinly interested in the car and its history.

    The finest compliment I got from him was, "You even have the original wheel covers! Wonderful! Thats nice."

    Bonzi Lon
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    Very cool that you got to chat with Wayne Carini. I think that is the cool thing about the Concours events; you get to meet some very interesting people. Last year at the Dana Point Concours, I was able to meet Barry Meguiar, CEO of Meguiar's car wax. We really had a nice conversation about the Z car as he had a '72 when he was younger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post
    Hi Brian:
    Thanks for the very interesting story and great pictures. Speaking of Z Visitors - A fellow Z Car enthusiast from NZ, Steve Chong and his wife visited us here in Flordia a few years ago. They really wanted to see a Shuttle Launch, which was of course delayed - so they extended their vacation a bit. Nonetheless it was great seeing them... If you get to the US - be sure to stop by...



    FWIW,
    Carl B.
    I worked that launch!

    I miss my shuttles.
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
    93.9% done and getting better every day
    Now with 100% more DATSUN SPIRIT L28 Power
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zedyone_kenobi View Post
    I worked that launch!

    I miss my shuttles.
    Me too - I worked on the Space Shuttle program and I miss them. Of course they flew about three times as long as originally intended. We supplied the Main Engine Controllers and Flight Control Systems for the Shuttles. Did you work Space Station as well?

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    Aaaahh, it's now the Z at the Concours and Aerospace thread .

    Couldn't help but respond as my first job out of college (almost 30 years ago) was designing a Centaur second stage to fit in the Shuttle Bay. Needless to say program was canceled after the Challenger accident. After that worked US space programs for 12 more years and then 3 years with the Russian space programs. Traveled to Florida often enough to be considered a local.

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    Default Muckenthaler Concours 2012

    More Z's at the concours. Went to the Muckenthaler Concours this weekend with my Z. All I can say is that they were pretty "Mucked" up.

    I entered my car in the preservation class, only to arrive and have them put me in the Japanese Sports car class. Long story short, they....uh....theoretically moved me into the preservation class, had the preservation judges do the judging on my car (they had different judges for the Z cars). A short while after all the judging, the judges told me, and the guy with the sweet 1970 red 1600 BMW that our cars were too "young" for the preservation class and we would not do well against the old 1930s and 1940s cars. In the end, I got a third place trophy (last place) in the Japanese car class that I did not enter, nor was I seen by it's judges. Go figure.

    Guy with red BMW and his wife were pretty upset as they had apparently placed first in some pretty big shows, including the PV Concours. A '40s Lincoln Continental took first, 1930's DeSoto took 2nd.

    Anyway, here's the pics of some cool cars. The group of three old cars were some of the other preservation vehicles. The two 1930 Cadillacs on the next panel were incredible.

    Love that LS2 motor. Will put something like that in a Z someday.
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    Last edited by motorman7; 05-20-2012 at 08:05 PM.

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    Default More Muck

    And here's the Caddy's....Simply amazing to see.

    Can you tell that I like Jags?
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    Formerly known as Koalia Reverend's Avatar
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    Nice pictures man. We have few of those Maseratis in our town...big ass engines!
    -72 240Z "Goldie"

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    Nice pics of the Chushman scooters! Definitely don't see at too many shows.
    08/1970 240z Series-1 #8011 - Silver, black int., 2.4L I-6, 5spd, 90% restored.
    06/1973 VW Karmann Ghia - Black convertible, 4spd, 1600cc air-cooled engine.
    11/2013 Scion FR-S - Silver, 6spd, a car with the soul of a Z for the modern times.
    Restoration thread of my old '72 240z -> http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...1972-240z.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardway View Post
    Nice pics of the Chushman scooters! Definitely don't see at too many shows.
    I think my cousin still has one of those. I may have to call him up and see about restoring that thing. I am sure it was over 40 years ago that I saw it in his garage.

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    McPherson College in KS has a wonderful (prom) car show every year. This huge group of Cushman's came to the show as a club group.

    Some very nice cars were shown at this event. No telling what you will find in the center of the country. Always some very unusual and interesting things on wheels, some were on tracks!

    Bonzi Lon
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    1973 HLS30-168500
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    Default Z Cars at the Concours

    Sunday I attended the Ault Park Concours in Cincinnati with my 240Z which is one of the few Concours events in the country that have a specific Collector Asian class. The class had 7 cars that included Datsun, Mazda, Toyota, Acura and Honda. Attached is a shot of a RHD Fairlady belonging to George Haldane from Georgia. George has shown this car at several events and it is cars like his that help to gain greater exposure for Asian cars in events like this one. One of the cars in the class was a Toyota that a 16 year old entered in his first show. He and his family did a great job in prepping the car and hopefully with the car receiving a Award of Distinction he will continue to enter in shows in the future.

    The other shots are just a few of the wide mix of cars, motorcycles, antique wooden boats, vintage races and many more the Ault Park Concours offered. The crowds were tremendous and I had a chance to talk with many owners of Z's, past and present that were in attendance. Again it was a great show and one that everyone would enjoy.
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    ZULAYTR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulaytr View Post
    Attached is a shot of a RHD Fairlady belonging to George Haldane from Georgia. George has shown this car at several events and it is cars like his that help to gain greater exposure for Asian cars in events like this one.
    The car looks really nice and I'm sure there's an interesting story behind it being first sold in 1981 despite having been built in 1977, but why does the card say it has an "original" 2400cc engine? It would have left the factory with an L20AE.

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    I have a Fairlady Z brochure which I picked up in Tokyo on leave in Dec. 71. It has the Fairlady 240ZL, Fairlady240Z, with 2400cc engine, Fairlady Z, Fairlady ZL with 2000cc. I would imagine they would have continued doing the same with the 77 2+2. Anyone know for sure? Kats?

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    Fred,
    The L24 engined Z models were introduced in October 1971 and dropped from late 1973 onwards in the Japanese market. Nissan tried the L26 in a few Z cars ( 'Fairlady 260Z' ) for the Japanese market at the end of 1973, but they struggled to pass new emissions standards at the same time as running well with aircon, and were all recalled. So basically the Japanese market only had L20A / L20AE engined S30 and S31-series Zs from late 1973 right up until the debut of the S130-series Z in 1978.

    The car above would definitely have left the factory with a two litre 'L20AE' engine.

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    I concur. The 1971 brochure you picked up, Fred, would have listed the export (HS30) Fairlady 240Z and ZL equipped with the 2.4 liter engine but not the home market S30 for the 1972 model year. Another source "know for sure" would be Brian Long with his publication; "Datsun Z - From Fairlady to 280Z", Veloce Publishing 1998. I would be willing to bet that the owner is not aware that his engine is the 2.0 liter and is assuming, (because 240Zs came with 2.4 liter engines - right?) that his car has a 2.4 liter. I wonder. It seems highly unlikely but would a Tokyo dealership in 1981 have an export 1977 version for sale?
    Enjoy the Ride
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorman7 View Post
    More Z's at the concours. Went to the Muckenthaler Concours this weekend with my Z. All I can say is that they were pretty "Mucked" up.

    I entered my car in the preservation class, only to arrive and have them put me in the Japanese Sports car class. Long story short, they....uh....theoretically moved me into the preservation class, had the preservation judges do the judging on my car (they had different judges for the Z cars). A short while after all the judging, the judges told me, and the guy with the sweet 1970 red 1600 BMW that our cars were too "young" for the preservation class and we would not do well against the old 1930s and 1940s cars. In the end, I got a third place trophy (last place) in the Japanese car class that I did not enter, nor was I seen by it's judges. Go figure.

    Guy with red BMW and his wife were pretty upset as they had apparently placed first in some pretty big shows, including the PV Concours. A '40s Lincoln Continental took first, 1930's DeSoto took 2nd.

    Anyway, here's the pics of some cool cars. The group of three old cars were some of the other preservation vehicles. The two 1930 Cadillacs on the next panel were incredible.

    Love that LS2 motor. Will put something like that in a Z someday.
    Nice eye candy, love the LS2 shot...................

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    I think it is more likely that the Staff member helping at the Ault Park Concours simply made a mistake printing up the sign. Or the owner simply put 2400cc on the entry app. by mistake.

    Wonder if Bob got any pictures of the engine from the other side..

    FWIW,
    Carl B.

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    Carl/ All,

    Sorry that I cannot add any additional photos as I was getting ready to take some more shots and I got called back to my car. This car was at the Nashville Z Club show recently, ZAttack 2012, and the owner had some posters covering the engine bay with information so my shot of there is no help either. Regarding the sign, when you are accepted the owner sends in the information so I would not think the sign maker got it wrong.
    ZULAYTR

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    The sign also says "purchased from Tokyo Nissan in 1981", but it doesn't say it was new then. My guess is that is just when the owner that shipped it to the US in 1983 (maybe still the current owner) bought it as a used car.

    -Mike

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    Default 240Z La Jolla Concours Promo


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    Great Going Rich!! Good for you!! Actually good for all of us too.

    Carl B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beck View Post
    Great Going Rich!! Good for you!! Actually good for all of us too.

    Carl B.
    Thanks Carl, it was really a nice shoot. It just scares me to death being in front of the camera though.

    The La Jolla Concours is one of the better Concours shows in SoCal. The Dana Point Concours is also top notch. There are several other ‘lesser’ Concours here in SoCal, with some being very disappointing. I say that NOT based on winning any trophies (I didn’t win a thing at the Dana Point show, but it is one of the best show events I have ever experienced). I say disappointing based on how the entrants of Japanese cars are treated and the shows lack of organization.

    As owners of Japanese cars we are sometimes treated as second class citizens. In some of these shows, there are not even categories where a Japanese sports car (roadster or Z) can be entered. In two of the ‘lesser’ shows I have been to, the Japanese cars are all the way in the back area. One show even had the Japanese cars over the side of a steep hill, so they were virtually unseen unless you went over to the edge of the hill. Jay and I were fuming at that one. I will never go there again.

    Anyway, that’s my take. Glad they have accepted me into the La Jolla show. Their show is very well run and very impressive. I am looking forward to a great event and will post pictures of the show here on the site.

    Best regards,
    Rich

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    I have been lucky enough to have been invited (for the past 2 years) to a beautiful Concours here in Beverly Mass. It is known as The Misslewood Concours and is located on a college campus right on the ocean with spectacular views. In 2012 I was shocked to find out I had won my class!! The class was "Most Influential Car of the '70's". They do things a bit different there with the classes. Finally, I just learned I have been invited back for my 3rd year....can't wait!

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    Yes, most of the Concours events are just fantastic. That is what made the Dana Point show so nice was the view (and the excellent organization). Sitting on the golf course fairway, overlooking the ocean, enjoying the cars. It’s just perfect. Congrats on the third invite. Now that you have a first, you can just relax and enjoy the views and conversation.

    Best regards,
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    Marin Concours is hosting a "Japanese Manufacture to 1985" class this year. It's a judged class, one of the first I've seen. This is a pretty big show, so I'm happy to see that they are judging the cars.

    Theres still a lot of predudice out there, but IMHO, a big part about the disrespect is due to the fact that 98% of all "restored" Japanese cars would not score well using typical concours scoring. At a traditional concours, only cars restored to appear factory-stock carry any cachet. And lets face it, most people install all kinds of upgrades and 3rd party add-ons to their Japanese cars when they restore them. That's simply not what many multi-marque concours are about.

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    Default 2013 La Jolla Concours Pics

    OK here’s the first installment of La Jolla Concours pics. Since I took a first last year I was ineligible to win anything this year . However, those of us that were previous winners were in the main staging area of the show, so very nice location. Got to meet a lot of people and have a lot of great conversations. Mike of ZCSD took a second with his 1982 280Z in the Special Interest category, which was great. The few Japanese cars at this show were treated well. A small Toyota won the directors award. Very nice.
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    Default Part 2

    More cars. I must say, that maroon 1936 Alfa shown in the first set of pictures was absolutely incredible. By far my most favorite car in the show. An incredible work of art; the styling lines, curves and design make this thing just incredible to behold. They just don’t make them like that anymore. Just gorgeous.
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    I mean the fact that a 240 and 280Z are in the same show and can be mentioned in the same breath as a Healy, a Jag, and a Ferrari is pure win!
    1971 240Z HLS30-38691
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    The other unique thing about both the Z’s at the show is that neither one is a restoration. There are very few cars in the show that have not been restored, maybe 4 or 5 others, out of almost 300 cars (That’s counting the preservation class!).
    Several of the judges said they truly appreciated the non-restored cars and the effort to keep them that way. That was nice to hear coming from a judge. Also had a woman say my car was her favorite in the whole show. I think that just about made my day . Had countless people ask me what I thought the Z was worth. I told them $60K. No one argued with that (Of course, they may also have thought I was from Colorado or Washington state, so they let it go).
    Last edited by motorman7; 04-08-2013 at 03:51 PM.

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