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Thread: Overheating

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    Default Overheating

    For years now I have dealt with an overheating problem and can not figure out what the cause of it is....

    I just went through and replaced water pump, gasket, and thermo, cleaning radiator, replacing hoses i let it idle for a few minutes and slowly the dial starts to creep up towards the red....

    I dont know what else to do any suggestions welcome.

    Thanks

    also, if i am driving the temp stays ok for the most part, but when i idle it starts to creep up, and once it gets up to high the only way to get it down is to shut the car off till it cools down, or maybe if im going 80 on the interstate

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    I had that same problem for a long time replaced everything i could think of and finally decided to pull the motor and when i did i thought about oil and so i pull the oil pan and there it was the oil pick up looked like a biscuit years of dirt and gunk had clogged the pickup and the motor was not getting enough oil you should check that it solved my problem

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    So what about adding an engine flush to the motor, might that help?

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    This requires taking the water pump off, but defintely needs to be checked. The condition of the cavity on the front cover where the pump vanes fit is critical to the pump efficiency. If there is any wear from a previously loose water pump vanes rubbing or cavitation damage to that area (looks like poc marks) the pump is simply not putting out the volume it needs to. Was the cause of my issues some years ago.
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    Default fan clutch

    Quote Originally Posted by boosd View Post
    For years now I have dealt with an overheating problem and can not figure out what the cause of it is....


    also, if i am driving the temp stays ok for the most part, but when i idle it starts to creep up, and once it gets up to high the only way to get it down is to shut the car off till it cools down, or maybe if im going 80 on the interstate
    Sounds like the fan clutch is bad. At idle the fan is not pulling enough air into the radiator.

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    Details of the car and engine, and how far the needle gets toward red would help. The gauges aren't known for accuracy.

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    74 260z, mostly stock say for holley 4barrel, not just a bad gauge, will go all the way red after a couple mins at most of idling, once it goes past the halfway mark hwy driving will sometimes lower the temp a bit, but as soon as back down to an idle or low speeds temp shoots up fairly quickly

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    Quote Originally Posted by hr369 View Post
    Sounds like the fan clutch is bad. At idle the fan is not pulling enough air into the radiator.
    This was my first thought as well, do the "smoke test" hold a lit cigarette in front of the radiator and see how the fan pulls. Also feel the clutch resistance cold, then idle the car till it gets hot and recheck the resistance, should be much tighter when it's hot.

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    I don't know if anyone asked this but do you have a fan shroud? I know people that believe these don't do anything but they do indeed help cooling the engine. Check the fan clutch also as stated above

    Jan
    1976 280Z
    HLS30288273

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    I also have another post up about electrical issues, the battery is not charging when my foot is off the gas; Does this add more to the possibility that the fan clutch is shot?

    I have the clutch removed from the fan atm was going to try to rebuild, however mine is bolted to the fan, I removed the 4 bolts, but then the fan is riveted together where rebuild instructions say there should be 4 bolts....

    Is this clutch not able to be serviced?

    Also no fan clutch on my early 74 260z, havent had one since I have had the car, I assume this is typical of the year and model?
    Last edited by boosd; 08-26-2012 at 04:54 PM.

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    EDIT, Drilled rivets out, I guess this is an aftermarket fan clutch????

    Looks pretty good though.... So im guessing this isnt the issue?? Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by boosd; 08-26-2012 at 05:09 PM.

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    Default was there any oil inside?

    Quote Originally Posted by boosd View Post
    EDIT, Drilled rivets out, I guess this is an aftermarket fan clutch????

    Looks pretty good though.... So im guessing this isnt the issue?? Click image for larger version. 

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    Its hard to tell from the picture if there was any oil inside the clutch, and if there was oil in it, was it thick?
    No oil or too thin oil and it won't work very well regardless how it looks inside.

    They riveted the halves together? I've never seen a factory datsun clutch thats rivited. There is no way to put it back together unless you put threads in one half with a tap but thats too much trouble. I'de just get a used factory datsun clutch off someone and add a heavier oil to it.

    You have another early 260z without a fan clutch? can you swap out the fan that uses no clutch? That should tell you
    if it was the clutch causing the overheating.

    The alternator charging is another issue. One possiblility is the fan belt is too loose. If you can turn the alternator pulley
    with your hand, its too loose.

    http://www.hammondsplains.com/newtec...ling/index.htm
    Last edited by hr369; 08-27-2012 at 12:56 AM.

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    Have you always bleeded the cooling system after changing parts? I had spooky overheating too, caused by air bubbles in the system.
    -72 240Z "Goldie"

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    A well experienced Datsun mechanic has always said, "If you can stop the fan at idle with a 'TV Guide', the clutch is not working." I would assume any magazine you didn't like would work.

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    Pressure testing is the way you get started diagnosing overheating. Even a simple loose hose clamp can allow the system to lose pressure, and then, instead of boiling at 260 degrees and 7 psi, it boils at 212 degrees and 0psi. Result: You overheat. Buy or borrow a pressure tester. Check engine cold, then warm up the engine with the radiator cap off, and see if it holds pressure hot.

    Next is to perform a block test, seeing if you have a blown head gasket. There are chemical tests your mechanic can do, it changes colors if combustion gasses are getting pumped into the coolant. The chemical goes "stale" fast, so have him TEST the chemical before testing your block.

    Driving WITHOUT a thermostat in is how you determine total cooling system CAPACITY. If it can't stay cool doing 30mph, or climbing hills, you've got other problems. Leaves/dirt plugging the radiator is one.

    Just replace ANY thermostat with a new Stant and call it good. Never re-use an old radiator cap either. And excess flushing only causes problems. The steel/aluminum in your engine/radiator form a battery, when you flush it with caustic acid, you expose lots of shiny new metal, and the battery action starts up all over again.

    A lot of drivers MISTAKENLY put 100% antifreeze in the system once they start having cooling system problems. Bad, wrong! Ethylene glycol has LESS heat carrying capacity than water. Use a 50:50 or a 60 water 40 antifreeze mix.

    Gauge problems mislead SOME drivers into THINKING they have an overheating problem.

    If you run the engine, till warm, with the radiator cap off, any air trapped in the Z's engine should bleed itself out. Some other cars don't work so well and require special tricks to get the air out of the system. And the most frequent cause of bubbles, air, is....blown head gaskets. (And the most common cause of blown head gaskets is plugged up catalytic converters, btw...)

    To remain cool a car needs only a few basic things, sufficient coolant, sufficient pressure, sufficient flow (waterpump) and sufficient airflow.

    Looking at when and WHERE your car overheats should tell you which of those you don't have.

    And no, I would not stick ANYTHING in a spinning radiator fan unless you like buying new fans. Those plastic blades are brittle now, not flexible like 30 years ago when your mechanic USED to stick a magazine in 'em.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boosd View Post
    So what about adding an engine flush to the motor, might that help?
    Flushes, in general, are a BAD idea. They often make the problems worse, oil OR radiator flushes. Save them as a last ditch effort before a tear-down.
    Last edited by Wade Nelson; 08-27-2012 at 06:33 AM.

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    If you are certain your cooling system is up to par, your fan is good, oil flow is good through the motor. I suspect and intake leak causing a lean condition. Its a thought worth investigating. I know you said you have a holley on it, that doesn't mean its flowing the right amount of fuel. Lots of thoughts I would spout off have been mentioned above but reading all the posts this is what comes to mind.

    On another thought, how do you "know" the gauge is good, have you used a infared temperature meter on the engine? Those little tools are handy for just this purpose of testing heat.

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    Overheating + not charging= loose belt

    I am also very confused here, you have 2 260's and one that doesn't have a clutch on the fan?
    You might want to be clearer to get good help
    Steve
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    Quote Originally Posted by madkaw View Post
    Overheating + not charging= loose belt

    I am also very confused here, you have 2 260's and one that doesn't have a clutch on the fan?
    You might want to be clearer to get good help
    tension in belt was more than adequate

    seems to be just a bad alternator and added more weight to the fan clutch as well replaced water pump/gasket and some old hoses, now getting a better result with a 60/40 water antifreeze mixture.
    Not sure how you got so confused that you read 2 260s and one that doesn't have a clutch fan... i guess that is irrelevant, but I received plenty of good help regardless


    Thanks for yalls help, took the z out for a drive for about an hour, with stops and various traffic/speeds and did quite well

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    Quote Originally Posted by boosd View Post
    I have the clutch removed from the fan atm was going to try to rebuild, however mine is bolted to the fan, I removed the 4 bolts, but then the fan is riveted together where rebuild instructions say there should be 4 bolts....

    Is this clutch not able to be serviced?

    Also no fan clutch on my early 74 260z, havent had one since I have had the car, I assume this is typical of the year and model?
    Probably from your writing. Above you said that you're working on the fan clutch, then said that your early 260Z doesn't have a fan clutch. You're either talking about two different cars or just not explaining things clearly. I thought that you had two cars also.

    Now you said that you've added more weight to the fan clutch which also doesn't make much sense either. Overall, it's hard to tell what caused the over-heating and why it would be better now. But, if it works for you, good luck with it.
    Last edited by Zed Head; 08-27-2012 at 06:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zed Head View Post
    Probably from your writing. Above you said that you're working on the fan clutch, then said that your early 260Z doesn't have a fan clutch. You're either talking about two different cars or just not explaining things clearly. I thought that you had two cars also.

    Now you said that you've added more weight to the fan clutch which also doesn't make much sense either. Overall, it's hard to tell what caused the over-heating and why it would be better now. But, if it works for you, good luck with it.
    Now it is clear why I caused the confusion, I should have typed fan shroud instead of clutch. My apologies.

    My assumption is that the fan clutch on my 260 was aftermarket since it only had 4 bolts and 4 rivets which had to be drilled out and it seems most have 4 bolts on each side that can be removed.

    I read some information about rebuilding the fan clutch and there was no real clear indication of how much "goo" from http://www.hammondsplains.com/newtec...ling/index.htm that should go into the clutch, unless I missed something. I have read a few posts that said 10w30 was to low, and to add 90w or lucas oil smoke additive.

    Since there was clearly some thick liquid still inside the clutch, I at first thought it was not the issue, but after turning it over a couple times and it being clear that it did not need to be done quickly to prevent any from leaking out I assume that it was possible some of the liquid had leaked over time so I added a good amount of 10w40 into the clutch and bolted it back together.

    On my way out have the electrical tested the car did quite well, slightly over mid way on the temp gauge but did not shoot up like it use to at stops.

    Once I arrived to have the electrical tested, I shut the car of, (for the 3rd time on the trip from other stops) and the car would not start.... It kept trying, and would start to fire up only to die a second or less later.

    After probably 30 attempts she fired up and I revved the engine to about 6k and off went one of my newly replaced hoses that apparently had not been tightened down... :/ (Up to this point I was running a 50/50 mix)

    Still unclear as to what caused the failure to start but possibly something in the line causing a blockage or issue with the electric fuel pump.... Nevertheless, I lost about a quart of 50/50 and after thinking about some of the previous posts I decided to add just water to try and bring closer to a 60/40 mix.

    The 60/40 seems to be working better, I let it idle for a good 10 minutes after driving for a while and had no over heating issues at all.

    Thanks much for all your help, may have fixed a few things that weren't the direct root of the problem, but nothing wrong with a little preventative maintenance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Nelson View Post
    Flushes, in general, are a BAD idea. They often make the problems worse, oil OR radiator flushes. Save them as a last ditch effort before a tear-down.
    Coolant flushes are fine. Prestone works great and take years of calcium off from running with tap water. There is a lot less to go wrong than an engine flush....those I dont like either.

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    Do you have a fan shroud? Many underestimate the importance of a shroud. Without it air goes around the radiator matrix instead of through it. elementary my dear Watson..........Elementary
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    Quote Originally Posted by esmit208 View Post
    Do you have a fan shroud? Many underestimate the importance of a shroud. Without it air goes around the radiator matrix instead of through it. elementary my dear Watson..........Elementary
    A fan shroud does not fix cooling issues...
    2/74 260Z

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