Hls30-24140

[ksbeta]

So having a numbers-matching Series-1 car is great. Lightweight, there's a limited number of them, and it's plenty quick as it is.

But then you all start chiming in about suspension modifications, transmission and differential swaps, motor modifications, and all order of wild sounding things that sound... well, awesome. So, I grabbed a beer, hunkered into the couch, and had a nice long brainstorming session. In the end, I believe I came to the same conclusion any sane car guy would: Buy another one.

I located this car on the Charlotte, NC Craigslist:

"1970 240Z, with SCCA approved roll cage. This car was running when it was parked. Body condition is good except for the bumpers, which are still on the vehicle.
The interior is good. The suspension was modified. It has an engine and transmission but probably needs a new engine as it was not producing full power. Make offer. "



I'd already made one good decision that month in deciding to purchase a second car. I thought another bold power-move was in order: Purchase a rust-prone car sight-unseen from photos showing it stored outdoors and have it shipped up to VA.

Seller was a nice guy - very patient, and thanks to PayPal, I was $1,500 poorer but one Datsun richer.

Seller included this scrap of paper when he sent the title. Looked to be the ad he bought the car from back in the '90's. Got me excited about some of the treats I might find lying in store:

[ksbeta]

Thankfully it arrived without too many surprises. It was a low-rust, modified 1971 car, that probably hadn't moved in about 8 years or so.




Roll bar was there, brakes were seized, Weber DGV's on a non-matching L24. Five speed installed, dash and seats both totally intact.

[ksbeta]

[ksbeta]

It takes it's place in the garage next to the '70 for the winter:




While I sorted out some plans for the car, I was trying to learn a bit more about it's history. The PO was friendly, but didn't know too much on the history. Fortunately the aforementioned flier supplied with the car had the Name and Number of the Previous-Previous-Owner (two owners ago). Unsure of whether he'd remember the car twenty years later, I called the number and left a message on the machine. His wife called back later, laughing as the call was so out of the blue. They were both incredibly nice, and he patiently explained to me that he built the car in the early '80's to Autocross with, mostly with parts from his brother-in-law's crashed S30 racer. Should he ever read this, and I've remembered the details wrong, I hope he'll correct me.

[ksbeta]

Things came together nicely. Datsun Spirit is in my backyard here in Virginia, and Eiji very kindly agreed to build me a motor for the vehicle. This car would receive Datsun Spirit's STR2.8B package: An L28 with Flat Top pistons, N47 head, DSI's camshaft and lightweight flywheel, and the triple Solex 44's that were previously on my '70. That meant I needed to refresh everything else prior to the motor arriving in Late January. Suspension and brakes were up first. A Tokico Illumina setup was sourced, along with MSA Sway Bars, Toyota 4-Piston Calipers, and new hardware for just about everything else.

Some before / in-process of disassembling photos:

[ksbeta]

Cleaning up parts. Notice the second spring perch on the rear. Some discussion on this thread helped assume it was perhaps a way of compensating for the driver's weight. We ultimately cut it off prior to re-installing.

[ksbeta]

Rebuild, rebuild, rebuild. New brake lines in the rear, and otherwise everything bolted together fairly nicely. Jason, a good friend, has some partial insomnia and was staying in our guest room. We agreed to wake up around 6am the next day to put it all together, and when I woke up, he announced he'd finished it all. Between Mid-night and 5:30am. It's like having a mechanic elf. It's great.

[ksbeta]

The car came with an FS5C71A 5-Speed. It's a Datsun Roadster Transmission with a 240z bell-housing and tail. Someone will correct me if I got that wrong. When this car was built in the early '80's, all those ZX transmissions were still being used by all those ZX's. I imagine this was somehow more available. It will be replaced by a ZX transmission. The 4.11 differential from the ad turned out to be erroneous. It's actually a 3.54 R180. Here's the driveline that came out:

[ksbeta]

Pulling the old L24. Anyone need a spare?

[ksbeta]

That's about all for now.

[madkaw]

If I was closer I would love to have that L24, or just the head! Looks like another great project

[Captain Obvious]

"This car was running when it was parked.

That's got to be the most common sentence I've seen in Z car ads. I see that almost all the time! Has anyone ever seen an ad that says "Engine blew and it's been sitting since"?

Congrats. She's a beauty!

Bountiful suspension tree too. I planted one in my back yard, but it didn't take. Must like warmer weather.

[andres14oj]

1500 for this beauty? Wow, super nice find. Wish i had some of that luck. Looks super clean, definitely following this build.

[tlorber]

Good luck on the project. Be sure Not to throw out the roadster tranny. You can get like $6-700 for it if it is functional.

[ksbeta]

The suspension tree might be the reason my neighbors quit speaking to me. I'm hoping they keep up their sense of humor.

The Roadster Transmission is going to go into my '70, provided I can get the shifter rebuilt properly. Dann at Ralley has been helpful with parts there.

[Hardway]

"Buy another one" I love your logic! Great find on the car, as others have said, $1,500 was a deal. Excellent work and pics on bringing her back up to speed. Will be watching this thread for sure!

[ksbeta]

New tires arrived; being mounted today. 225/50/15 Toyo R888's. Funny how some tires help you feel like the project is coming together. I might not have anything in the car by way of a drive-train at the moment, but darned if I don't have some new rubber. Eiji should be done with the new motor this weekend, and hopefully by Sunday I'll have the new Datsun Spirit motor back home.

[ksechler]

Are you copying me? This is almost like reading my own thread!

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...ld-thread.html
http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/s...ld-thread.html
http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/w...-question.html

I even live near you (MD).

The only difference so far is I haven't pulled my motor (yet).

Good work so far.

[ksbeta]

Copying? Just trying to keep up!

[Reverend]

For those that do not know, roadster 5 speeds came as standard option in european Z's right from the beginning. Nice thread and nice pictures!

[ksbeta]

Spoke with Datsun Spirit this morning: The motor is finished. Should be picking it up Sunday morning. Looking forward to updating this thread.

[SSS-S30]

Can't wait to see the updates with the DSI motor in the car.

[monster875]

damn :O such a nice car, for such low price... u're damn lucky dude. can't wait to see the new engine

[ksbeta]

Eiji was kind enough to provide some photos from throughout the build. I thought I'd share a few of them before discussing the final product.

Here's the donor L28. We struck out on a multitude of blocks and heads, and ultimately used this N47 head to move things along. The block proved to have some issues in a cylinder, and we used another L28 (F54) from his stock.



Block all cleaned up:



Clean L28 Crankshaft; Flat-Top pistons:



Buttoning the bottom end up:




Lots of neat in-process photos. Here's some photos of the N47 head, complete with the DSI STR2.8B Camshaft:

[Hardway]

Great progress pics. Not only is Eiji's work great to see but his workspace is equally as nice!

[ksbeta]

Restored the engine bay before dropping in the new motor. Ordered paint from AutomotiveTouchup.com and used Polar White, #215. It's not the same color as the exterior, but hopefully I can get the body repainted in the near future, and at least I'll know what color to use.



Created an incredible amount of dust in the garage. I need to roll both cars out this spring and just clean. Also, the old VIN plate wouldn't look right when finished. Ordered a replacement from Banzai Motorworks.




Primer and first coats.

[ksbeta]

Stripped/painted the horns and hard-line mounts, just so they'd be clean. Didn't put too much thought into it, but black trim pieces + white engine bay = Dalmation car. Stupid stupid stupid.

[ksbeta]

Picked the motor from Datsun Spirit on another ridiculously cold day:



L28/N47 combination with flat-top pistons. 10.52:1 compression ratio. Lightweight flywheel. Going to be fun!

[ksbeta]

Got the motor dropped in this past weekend. It detracts from the Dalmatian theme, if only a little.

[Diseazd]

Nice job Bill......looking great! Eiji builds a beautiful motor. Regards. Guy. P.s. Get Mike McGinnis to make you some new ID plates.

[Reverend]

Awesome thread! Especially i like those engine bay pics (before/after). It gives me courage to finish my project. Thank you!

[ksbeta]

Thank you both. New engine Plate ID came back from the engraver damaged. Mike is taking a look at it

[Zedyone_kenobi]

I am just here to show my support for your work and the art that Eiji creates! He is a magician with these L28's.
I hope your love yours as much as I love mine!!

Are you going to black out the radiator support like the OEM did?

[Travel'n Man]

Great detail on the thread - gotta ask - what carbs are you putting on?

*Went back and found the triples you are planning on - sounds like a great ride!

[ksbeta]

Spent most of Sunday in the garage, trying to get the car back on the ground. Finally installed the 280ZX 5-Speed, which thankfully went in without too much trouble. Got the rear sway bar installed. I used the MSA kit, which requires drilling some holes under the carpet behind the seats and cursing a bit trying to compress the bushings.

Threw the 4.11 Differential back in the car, along with the half-shafts. Then came the moment of truth: I dug for awhile trying to figure out, then posed the question, and got some very helpful answers (here: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/p...-question.html), but still wasn't 100% sure. However, I can now definitively say that if you want to mat a 280ZX Transmission up to an R180 differential in an early (Series-1) 240z, you do need the Series-1 drive-shaft. This car came with the Roadster transmission & drive-shaft, which I removed and put in my '70. Fortunately, that freed up a drive-shaft from an early car to swap over to this project. I've read some great posts on here about modifying the shift levers to avoid having to cut the transmission tunnel and/or console, and will be pursuing that next. The console in this car is in pretty good shape, and I have no desire to chop it up. Along that vein, I'm missing the Series-1 spare change tray: Anyone have a spare?

Around 8pm it all came together, and I was able to put on the wheels and finally drop it to the ground. Rolled it out of the garage and was able to sweep for the first time in a few months. Long way to go still with ignition and fuel, but the end of the tunnel is finally in sight. Will add photos later on.

[ksbeta]

[Deleted duplicate post]

[Diseazd]

Bill.....Doesn't matter whether it is an "A" 4 speed, "B" 4 speed or 280Z or 280ZX 4 or 5 speed tranny (they are all the same dimensions).......If you have a series I that doesn't have the updated conversion (series 2 diff hanger, flipped mustache bar and late diff mount and longer driveshaft) you have to use the short driveshaft. If you add those four items, you'll move the diff back so the half shafts aren't angular.That's why the factory changed that on series II cars....it got rid of the vibration from the half shafts angling forward on the early cars.

[ksbeta]

Reading back over your prior posts, that makes sense as well. I've never looked under a Series-II car, I suppose, and wasn't aware of the differences. Now I know what to do if I ever have vibration in the rear. Thanks Guy!

[Diseazd]

The only differences that you'll be able to see (to confirm the update has been done) is the rear control arm hanger is curved (behind the diff) as opposed to the early cars (straight) and if you look close you can tell the mustache bar is flipped 180 degrees. This gives the diff the space to move back when the new diff mount (which moves the diff back) is installed. Great project! PJOE (Brian) can help you with altering your shift lever to clear the console.

[ksbeta]

Now I know what you're talking about. I remember accidentally trying to put the mustache bar in flipped 180*. PJOE's write-up on the modified shifter is fantastic. That was 100% my inspiration for knowing it can be done.

[theczechone]

That motor looks gorgeous, and congrats on great progress on your car!

[mlc240z]

I might know where you can get rid of that old rear sway bar and links. :-)

[ksbeta]

ZX Transmission installed. Obvious why a different shifter is needed



Threw on one of the restored steering wheels to roll it around the garage. Poor shot, but if I used the flash, you could see all the dust. Another of the roll cage.



Back on the ground, wheels and tires installed. When I had this towed to the garage back in the Fall, I had them drop it off in the driveway, thinking I'd just push it in the garage where I wanted it. Everything must've been locked up, it was awful. This time though it slid around nicely. Things seem to be paying off.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

I had to trim my console in my 71 a bit, but if you are very careful, you can get away with using the OEM shifter boot and you simply cannot tell it is not from the factory. Take your time and I wish you the best of luck.

[ksbeta]

Thanks Stephen. It took awhile to find a good console for my '70, so I'm very reluctant to tear into this Series-1 piece, lest I regret it later. I'm generally hesitant to do things to the car that can't be undone. This '71 is modified to the point that I probably shouldn't hold that feeling anymore, but I do believe (for the most part) it could still be restored to stock, need-be. Not by me. But someone else with lots of money and time.

I failed to mention: The wheels are 15x8 Rota's and the tires are 225/50ZR-15 Toyo Proxes R888. No fitment issues, and it'll be nice to see how the front looks once fluids, carbs, the hood, etc. are all re-installed. I'm hoping it'll drop down just a little more. I may find I have to roll something up front later on, but for now things are looking good. Thanks for all the folks who chimed in when I was looking at sizing questions a few months back.

[LeonV]

Coming along nicely, great to see 2 nice Zs side-by-side in the garage! Tires are nice and meaty, that thing will have a ton of grip.

[tlorber]

Does anyone know WHY Nissan made the angle of the half shafts out of 90* on the series 1 cars? It seems like most other issues were thoroughly contemplated, but to go out of their way to have the rear end shifted forward is odd.

Did they want a shorter wheelbase for handling purposes?

Just curious.

[ksbeta]

Tlorber,

My experience with Nissan's decisions is that they were all extremely well thought out and almost always in consideration of how to frustrate me as much as possible 40 yeras later. Mission accomplished.

[LeonV]

Does anyone know WHY Nissan made the angle of the half shafts out of 90* on the series 1 cars? It seems like most other issues were thoroughly contemplated, but to go out of their way to have the rear end shifted forward is odd.

Did they want a shorter wheelbase for handling purposes?

Just curious.

Halfshaft angles do not affect wheelbase.

I have zero factual info on why. I can only guess it had something to do with packaging and/or parts/tooling-availability.

[ZohanIsBack]

You definitely went the right way with the tires. I ran Toyo tires on my 1995 Z28 the entire time I owned it. At some point, the tire was slashed down to the metal on one of the rear tires (still don't know if I ran over a razor blade, or if someone......). Anyway, I ran the tires for another year with the slash. Never leaked a drop and never gave out. Toyo demands respect....

[ksbeta]

Not the greatest shot in the world, but got the carbs mocked up, along with the VC back from powder coating.

I have the short Mikuni manifold. I forgot what a PITA it is to get studs in the top of that thing. I think we cut some studs short before to enable ourselves to fit the nut in the manifold. Did these kits originally come with custom length studs? Otherwise, the Wolf Creek-restored carbs look right at home.

[Sean240Z]

It was great to see your cars in the garage. Can't wait to see them in their natural environment, on the open road!

[pbarcher]

Hi Bill,

Looks great. Can you tell us how you removed the powercoat from the lettering/trim?

Peter

[ksbeta]

Sean, Thanks for stopping by. This car will be a little while yet, but the '70 is very, very close.

Peter, it wasn't fun. I used a sanding attachment on the dremel and was very, very careful. I'm not thrilled with the result, but I have yet to polish the bare aluminum. I'm hoping that continues to improve the results. ASCO had to powder coat this particular one 3-4 different times, from what they tell me. The result is ok, but the other VC (for the '70) turned out much crisper. Impurities in Aluminum during the baking process or something similar.

[e-tek]

Really nice transformation. You did a great job refreshing the engine bay and I love the red VC! Those tires look STICKY! Should be fun.

[Gary in NJ]

How is it that I haven't clicked into this thread until today? Great project and documentation.

[ksbeta]

Busy spring with yard/house projects, but got some work done Sunday. Carbs finally setup, ignition system installed, along with the fuel pump back in the rear. Went with the MSD 6A, and a Carter fuel pump



Brake Master Cylinder isn't bolted on yet, but that's the later-style 15/16" cylinder. Had to modify the BMC a lot to get it to fit the 240z booster, as discussed here. We'll see how they work together, along with the Toyota calipers up front.

[Reverend]

I think its outrageous that you have so clean and nice engine bay! lol

[Zedyone_kenobi]

keep it up buddy!

this is looking just outstanding!

[Hardway]

That engine looks like it is sitting in an operating room with all the white paint around it. Super clean!!! I love it. Keep up the great work!

[ksbeta]

Getting closer.

Brakes and clutch all buttoned up; pedals reattached. New Fan & clutch bolted up, and the Datsun Spirit head shield, along with the Air Horns & Filters from Wolf Creek are ready to go. Having some issues with the MSD setup. Followed the instructions on here to a T, but so far no-go. Probably something small, we'll get there.



Finally, I cleared one of the bigger hurdles I was concerned about. I didn't want to cut the Series-1 dash or the Transmission Tunnel. While it would be a PITA, nearly everything I've done could be undone at this point. That would cross a threshold. Todd down at Tidewater Z fabricated the shift lever needed to make the 280ZX transmission work in a Series-1 without cutting up the console. His is the chrome/black one. The gold zinc one I purchased from Datsun Parts LLC., which was supposed to solve the same problem, but you can see from the angle it just hits the area near my choke knob.

Todd - Thanks much! And that lovely Gail working with him must know she deserves all the credit for this one...

[Diseazd]

Nice job Bill......can't wait to see it! Please update on how Todd's shifter works.

[ksbeta]

Thanks Guy. I'll update on the shifter once it's in.

This MSD wiring is tricky. I've read nearly every thread on it, and there's not a lot of definitive alternatives.

I'm using the E12-80 Module, no ballast resistor, MSD Coil, and MSD Digital 6A. Not using the Green/Purple, and the rest of the wiring is per one of the threads on here. I've actually got another call into Todd to pick his brain; he mentioned at the show he probably knew what the issue was, but needed to get more details.

[ksbeta]

I guess if it were easy, there'd be more of these running around.

After some (surprise!) challenges with the radiator (280z unit), Jason managed to spark some life to this thing. Haven't had an opportunity to tune anything up yet, but it runs, and starts fairly easily with the reduction gear starter and MSD box working together, and hopefully that'll continue to improve as the engine breaks in. Pulled the butcher paper off and put the hood back on. Starting to look like a car again.



I have to say - even without having been tuned yet, it sounds incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj5ThMGQ58w

[Zedyone_kenobi]

HUZZAH!!!

great work.. Eiji breaths life back into a great car!!!!

stay the course my friend.... keep it up
Call me if you have any questions that I may be able to help.

and one Eiji motor owner to another..

[Reverend]

Hearing triples roar... priceless.

[ksbeta]

Thanks! Exciting to be this close. Need to attach the throttle cable to the pedal and install the shift lever... and we'll be off!

[grannyknot]

Good on you man, this whole thread has been a great read. Any chance you can record what it sounds like, maybe pulling out of the garage and roaring away?

[ksbeta]

Absolutely. If I can stop driving it long enough to hold the camera!

[ksbeta]

Got Todd's shift lever installed today. Fits great, no issues. Cycles through all gears without bumping. Great investment. Having issues with the MSD Tach Adapter, but will post in the Electrical section.

[ksbeta]

I may have purchased the wrong tach adapter. I'm going to try this example:

Getting your early 240Z tachometer working with an MSD 6 Series ignition. - Ignition and Electrical - HybridZ

[bacarl]

Wow, great project. Did Datsun Spirit build the L28 from scratch using in-stock parts? This is the first I've heard of Datsun Spirit outside of Z_k's signature. If I may ask, what does a build like that cost?

Also what process did you use to clean up the suspension bits? I love the "suspension tree", Captain's comment back in post #12 cracked me up

I know you're planning to freshen up the white exterior (which will look fantastic) but I gotta say, I really like the contrast of the grungy white exterior with the gorgeous & clean functionality of the engine bay and gleaming L28.

[Zedyone_kenobi]

The answer about the cost is really it depends.... Do you have a core or does DS need to source one for you. What if any head work do you want done. How wild do you want to go. DS engines can cost a wide range of prices....
I would check out his website

Datsun Spirit, Inc.

He has ranges of what his engine packages cost.

[ksbeta]

Finally got it on the road this weekend. A few rattles and other noises I'll need to sort out, but the major bits are good. Some additional tuning is needed, in addition to getting that damn tach figured out. Might need to roadtrip down to Tidewater Z.

Also, I'm suprised that the brakes weren't all that impressive. Or, impressive at all. Lumpy cam, vacuum being drawn from three carbs... would those combine to make my brakes less, say... grabby? I've got the stock 240z booster, a 280zx MC, 4-Pot Calipers up front, and the stock drums in the rear. What do I need to tweak to make this puppy actually grab. I saw a thread on here about this before. Time to go digging.

Stopped at London Auto up the road on the drive. That track-prepped Fiat in back looked pretty mean.

[ksbeta]

Got the alignment done. I failed to tighten one of the bolts on the TC arm at the wheel, so after they did the alignment... they had to do it again. They were at least nice enough to hand me a wrench and let me fix my own mistake, rather than giving me the boot - or worse - not telling me, and letting me suffer the consequences.

Curry's Automotive in Falls Church. Great group of guys there.

[ksbeta]

Got a good amount of driving in this weekend. Did the Great Falls Cars & Coffee on Saturday with Jason, who brought up his '75 as well. That thing will be an absolute monster when he's finished, and will no doubt blow this thing out of the water. Had some nice crowds the whole morning, but only due to the Shelby clone parked next to me. Hey - I'll take what I can get.



Finally logged some miles with Todd's custom shift lever as well. It feels incredibly natural, and the motion is great. It's low slung and easy to get used to. I'm half-tempted to order a few more just in case - well, who knows?



Lastly, Jason did some tuning/timing after Cars & Coffee. We don't have a flow/sync meter, so he is, once again, doing this by ear and feel. He's a fantastically talented mechanic. His alignment, with 2 boards and a measuring tape, was only a hair off what the shop was able to do. After his tuning, I fired the car up Monday night around 8pm and took to the backroads of McLean via 495, and ended up on the GW Parkway. An hour later I rumbled home after one of the best drives of my life. There's still some work to do, but everything seems to really be coming together. The car pulls hard, even in 5th. I'm through with 1st gear before I clear an intersection, but there's enough life in 2nd-4th to keep it all together. And the tires - holy mother of pearl - they grab the road like nothing else. My neck will give out before they do.

Speaking of which, it's time to fix the driver's seat. Or replace it. The seat sags, and there's a small tear in the vinyl. It wouldn't hurt to sit up a little higher.



It's a mean sight in the rear view (as seen from the '75), and here's Jason doing some builder's trials

[Diseazd]

You need a new inspection sticker......

[ksbeta]

You have a keen eye, and there's a story there.

Halfway home from Cars & Coffee, Jason says "lets switch cars." Sure. Why not.

With Jason driving my white car in front, we roll into the City of Falls Church, and sure enough, a motorcycle cop flips his lights on. I figured I'd rolled through a yellow or something. I turned into the first parking lot, Jason takes his next left. He gets in enough time to yell "the registration!" before the cop orders him to get back into his car.

I got a ticket for expired registration & inspection in Jason's 75, while Jason cruised home in my 71, which happened to be missing it's front plate and probably violated every noise statute the City of Falls Church has on the books.

[Sean240Z]

Bill - Still kicking myself for not dragging my butt out of bed on Saturday morning. Great to hear your car is working so well. I have a Uni-Syn if you want to borrow it. I'm looking forward to going for a drive with you and Jason at some point.

[ksbeta]

Thanks Sean. I'd be grateful to use the sync meter. Chance of rain Sat. kept some of the exotics away; we'll catch a better show with you soon.

[ksbeta]

(Deleted duplicate post)

[Hardway]

Looks like great times KS, minus the ticket of course. I am sure your wallet is a little drained after the engine project but the cure for your sagging seats is new foam and covers. Believe me, you will not be sorry! Give Les at Classic Datsun a call and order up a set of his seat foams and covers. A few hours of your time will go a long way and make driving your Z even more enjoyable. I recently recovered my passenger seat to match the driver seat I did a year ago. Now both seats match, both are super firm and comfy, and really help give the interior of my rough '72 some new life. Check out my threads below for some tips.

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/i...-pictures.html
http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/o...72-240z-6.html

[Sean240Z]

Another option is a seat swap. I'd considered redoing my seats, but as I'm not overly concerned about keeping my Z original, I settled on a Honda S2000 leather seat swap instead. I'm extremely happy with the results.


http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/i...swap-240z.html

[LeonV]

Looking good! What size are your front tires, and do they rub the valence?

[ksbeta]

Hi Leon,

Front and Rears are both 225/50/15. Fronts rub at full lock, but that's rarely an issue. The rears are maybe a 1/2" from the spring perch, and have rubbed on occasion, though there's no rhyme or reason to when they do.

4.11 Rear end was fun for a while. Keeping eyes peeled for a 3.90 R180 though: I feel like an 18 wheeler shifting gears at red lights.

Upgraded brakes (4-pot Toyota Calipers up front, 15/16 MC, new 240z booster [RockAuto], and totally redone everything else) are absolute s$#@. Can't figure it out. Thought maybe I had the hard-lines at the MC swapped (Series-1 placement vs. 280zx placement) but swapping them just blew an O-Ring in a rear cylinder. I mean they are bad - the stock brakes on my '70 are better.

Any thoughts on why these brakes might blow? The only components of the brake system I didn't replace were the hard lines in the trans tunnel and the proportioning valves. Everything else is new.

[guaro]

Great thread, food for thought , love the engine bay and mods done to your Z . Very talented

[LeonV]

Hi Leon,

Front and Rears are both 225/50/15. Fronts rub at full lock, but that's rarely an issue. The rears are maybe a 1/2" from the spring perch, and have rubbed on occasion, though there's no rhyme or reason to when they do.

4.11 Rear end was fun for a while. Keeping eyes peeled for a 3.90 R180 though: I feel like an 18 wheeler shifting gears at red lights.

Upgraded brakes (4-pot Toyota Calipers up front, 15/16 MC, new 240z booster [RockAuto], and totally redone everything else) are absolute s$#@. Can't figure it out. Thought maybe I had the hard-lines at the MC swapped (Series-1 placement vs. 280zx placement) but swapping them just blew an O-Ring in a rear cylinder. I mean they are bad - the stock brakes on my '70 are better.

Any thoughts on why these brakes might blow? The only components of the brake system I didn't replace were the hard lines in the trans tunnel and the proportioning valves. Everything else is new.

Hey, thanks for the response Bill!

What is it about the brakes that sucks? Mushy or just longer stopping distances?

[ksbeta]

Thanks Guaro,

Leon, long stopping distance, yep. I was hoping these 4-pots would grab more, but with such a hodgepodge of parts, its hard to say which element I goofed with.

[LeonV]

Leon, long stopping distance, yep. I was hoping these 4-pots would grab more, but with such a hodgepodge of parts, its hard to say which element I goofed with.

Switch back to stock! The 4-piston brakes are not an upgrade, as you've noticed. The main issue is with brake distribution, there are some good threads on HybridZ about it.

[Diseazd]

4.11 Rear end was fun for a while. Keeping eyes peeled for a 3.90 R180 though: I feel like an 18 wheeler shifting gears at red lights.

Bill....You might want to try your 3:54 ........I love mine with the ZX 5 speed......don't forget to change the speedometer drive gear in the tranny so your speedometer reads accurately. It's a 10 minute swap....held in by one bolt. Guy

[Blue]

??? R180 4,625?????? ??? ???? S30Z LSD(O/H? - ????!

[ksbeta]

Man I wish this thread would break into multiple pages like every other thread on this site...

Guy - That's a thought. I wouldn't mind experiencing the 3.54/ ZX combo prior to dropping it back in. Is there a fall ZCCNV show you'll be attending?

Leon - Thanks. Irritating, but that's my fault for not researching enough. I'd like more braking than stock - I'll either read up on proportioning or look at "real" upgrades.

Blue - Thanks. My Japanese is poor, but does that read to be a 4.625? You're running the other way! I'll top out at 45 at that rate

[ksbeta]

Also, Leon: I purchased the "wrong" 15/16" master cylinder, the 82-83 model. I of course had to trim it to get it to work, but afterwards it bolted on fine. Other than the fitment issues, are there other reasons this was "wrong" as an upgrade? Does the reservoir layout negatively impact performance somehow?

[Diseazd]

Bill.....Yes.....This Sunday in Richmond.....Eiji's coming down......come on down too. The 3:54 with ZX 5 speed turns 2600rpm at 60 miles an hour. It feels like a great combo to me.....if you've got one already, give it a try.

[Sean240Z]

The ZCCNV show will be Sunday, 27 Oct at Reston Heights. I'll email details. I'd love to go to the Richmond show but my folks are supposed to be coming down this weekend.

[Carl Beck]

Another option is a seat swap.

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/i...swap-240z.html

You wouldn't happen to recall what the width of the seat tracks, on the Honda seat - would you? That is, the outside of the Left track to the outside of the Right track.

thanks,
Carl B.

[LeonV]

Also, Leon: I purchased the "wrong" 15/16" master cylinder, the 82-83 model. I of course had to trim it to get it to work, but afterwards it bolted on fine. Other than the fitment issues, are there other reasons this was "wrong" as an upgrade? Does the reservoir layout negatively impact performance somehow?

The master is fine, it'll give you less travel at the cost of higher pedal force. However, it should have nothing to do with actual braking capability.

What happens is, the combined piston area of the front pistons in the 4-piston caliper is greater than stock which biases the brakes further to the front. Thus, the rear brakes aren't allowed to do as much work as they could with the stock system and don't transfer as much weight to the fronts. That all equates to longer stopping distances. Proportioning is different depending on which exact front calipers you went with, as piston sizes differ.

Here's a great HBZ thread to reference, I consider it a must-read for anyone thinking about playing with brakes: Toyota Truck Calipers, Ventilated Brake Rotors, MM rear Disc Brakes - Brakes, Wheels, Suspension and Chassis - HybridZ

[Sean240Z]

You wouldn't happen to recall what the width of the seat tracks, on the Honda seat - would you? That is, the outside of the Left track to the outside of the Right track.

thanks,
Carl B.

Carl - 18 3/4" is the seat track width (i.e. distance between outer edges of the inner and outer seat tracks). I will update my S2000 seat swap post with this info.

[30 Ounce]

Thanks Guaro,

Leon, long stopping distance, yep. I was hoping these 4-pots would grab more, but with such a hodgepodge of parts, its hard to say which element I goofed with.

Try adjusting the rod between the brake booster and MC. It made a huge difference on mine.

[pbarcher]

Bill,

Last year Eiji installed the Toyota four piston, non-vented, calipers on my 73 along with Stoptech slotted rotors and Posi-Quiet ceramic pads. All new rears too, with OEM shoes and a 15/16ths master.

As others have written, this combo upsets the front/rear brake balance and the rears don't do much at all. Switching to rears discs with an adjustable proportioning valve is the theoretical solution but tricky to achieve in practice.

I really like my 14" wheels, and rear discs won't fit so I'm stuck at this point. Under normal driving the car brakes well, but spirited driving overheats the fronts and the rear drums are still cool.

I suggest that you stay with stock until you decide on a comprehensive (expensive) upgrade.

Peter