How rare is an original 5 speed manual 240z?

[GeoJoe]

The 1973 240z that I've recently purchased is a 5mt. I assumed that it had some work done on it to convert it to a 5mt with a newer transmission, maybe from a 280z. However with some research and a Hayens manual, it seems that I have an original 5 speed based on my VIN and this page below. I'm wondering about how to verify that it is truly an original 5mt and if this is a big deal or not. Thanks!

HLS30167378 is my VIN

[SteveJ]

It's easy to verify. If the VIN is from America, it was not originally a 5 speed.

[GeoJoe]

So maybe my Z came via Canada? Or overseas?

[SteveJ]

Actually, it's more like the Haynes manual is wrong.

[zKars]

Canada =USA in this one case...

Now we need detailed pictures of the trans to look for clues to see if its a 280zx or 280z 5 speed, or a roadster transplate or a true non-NorthAm 5 speed.

[GeoJoe]

Actually, it's more like the Haynes manual is wrong.

I suspected this. Gotta get it on the lift, pics to follow.

[SteveJ]

By the way, where in Georgia are you?

[GeoJoe]

By the way, where in Georgia are you?

Just down the road from you in Buford!

[SteveJ]

I'm in the Forsyth county part of Gainesville. Do you have ready access to a lift? You might have two new best friends who live in Forsyth county.

[GeoJoe]

Naw, I'm dealing with a guy in the Sugar Hill area off Peachtree Industrial who restores only old Z's. I just got it a couple weeks ago and trying to get on his schedule for a full once-over. He's got an awesome set of tools... Haha

[HS30-H]

Actually, it's more like the Haynes manual is wrong.

The Haynes manual is correct*. You guys are just not understanding the differences between an HLS30U and an HLS301 ( or an HS30U ).



*Shocking, but true in this case.....

[Wade Nelson]

How rare? Impossibly rare.

[GeoJoe]

So if the Haynes manual is correct, what is the difference between an HLS30U and an HLS301 ( or an HS30U )?


Here's the VIN badge from my Z. So, is it an original 5sp based on this and the Haynes manual?

[SteveJ]

The Haynes manual is correct*. You guys are just not understanding the differences between an HLS30U and an HLS301 ( or an HS30U ).



*Shocking, but true in this case.....

Alan, would care to elaborate? There is no "U" in the US VINs, and I do not currently have access to my Haynes manual to read the VIN explanation in context.

[GeoJoe]

Here's the full page from the Haynes manual that started my concerns.
Trying to figure out the rotate image process....

[HS30-H]

Alan, would care to elaborate? There is no "U" in the US VINs, and I do not currently have access to my Haynes manual to read the VIN explanation in context.

I don't want to sound rude, but this is pretty basic stuff we're talking about here....

The north American market 'Datsun 240Z' didn't have a 'U' in its VIN prefix, but it had the 'U' suffix in its factory model variant code. In Japan they called it the 'Katashiki'. For the 'U' suffixed models, there were extra sub-variants depending upon the sales destination. The ful codes were not affixed to the car, and are not to be confused with the full VIN number / body serial number / 'Shatai Bango'.

The RHD export 'HS30U' models also didn't have that 'U' in their VIN / body numbers, but it was there in the 'Katashiki' and that's why Haynes - following the example of the factory workshop manuals - put it in their manuals.

The 'HLS301' was the LHD export market 'Datsun 240Z' which was manufactured specifically for the mainland European market. It had the FS5C71-A 5-speed transmission as standard equipment ( as did the 'HS30U' ). It was only the north American market cars that didn't get a 5-speed trans as standard equipment.



Having said all that, GeoJoe's car - if it's a north American market model - would almost certainly not have been equipped with a 5-speed trans when it left the factory.

[SteveJ]

Alan, I don't take it as rude, but without the specific knowledge you cite, it is easy to misunderstand what the Haynes manual intended to communicate. As usual, your impecible research/historical knowledge reveals more to the group, and I appreciate the full description.

[geezer]

I don't believe the average consumer or Z enthusiast in the US ever had much of a need or desire to know what the individual market designations were/are. It is very important in the manufacturing process to ensure the correct parts are being installed. Each model designation is defined by design as well as mandated vehicle conformance to individual markets. The guy behind the parts counter would certainly be aware of the different "sub models", but the customer, not so much.
This information is interesting and if you look at this page taken from Nissan's "Outline Specifications", you can see how helpful this info would be for someone who is trying to make sense of their transition year Z. I believe it would take a lifetime and then some to learn all the secrets and intricacies of the S30.

[26th-Z]

This may help - two pages from the May 1970 Service Bulletin

[GeoJoe]

Thanks all. Great group here full of knowledge.

[HS30-H]

I don't believe the average consumer or Z enthusiast in the US ever had much of a need or desire to know what the individual market designations were/are.

To be fair, historically the situation was probably pretty much the same outside the US too. However, we've spent lot of time on this forum over the years discussing this very topic and these very terms. It would be nice to think that some of that would have rubbed off, and that people would not be quite so incredulous to hear that an HLS30-prefixed 'Datsun 240Z' might have come from the factory with an FS5C71-A trans and 3.9:1 diff as standard equipment somewhere in the world ( "impossibly rare"....? ). After all, as yourself and 26th-Z have shown, it's all in the factory manuals and service bulletins.....



On the subject of suffixes, spare a thought for the Japanese market. In October 1971, there were more prefixes and suffixes attached to the 'S30' series code than you could shake a stick at:

[geezer]

If only I had the time.

A wall poster showing the entire S30 family tree would be a wonderful thing. Especially if it was done in a manner that would explain the reasons for and describe each variant in detail. It would likely require a fair amount of wall space but would be an effective way to put it all in perspective. It would be a great way to add to the ambiance of the man cave as well.

[26th-Z]

That's a pretty good idea, geezer!

Also, this is the very enthusiast site (out of all of them) you will find such information. The point was made several years ago that without knowing as much of the full story / history, one does not really understand the car. It is such a broad story and I don't think one can study the subject of the S30 enough. Fascinating story and what a great automobile to be enthusiastic about!

[Webmanic70]

5 speed is not rare in an Australian 240z. All zeds came with 5 speed as standard. In fact, I have never seen a 4 speed here nor probably ever will since no one wants them.

[bartsscooterservice]

5 speed is not rare in an Australian 240z. All zeds came with 5 speed as standard. In fact, I have never seen a 4 speed here nor probably ever will since no one wants them.

So maybe just the US..? I'm not the expert in this to. Wiki says about the 240Z:

Four-speed manual transmission: 3.364:1 (37:11)
Five-speed manual transmission: 3.90:1 (39:10) (not available in US)

Best thing for GeoJoe is to check the gearbox, and we'll know

[GeoJoe]

Follow up now that the Z has been on a lift, it's got a full 280z swap of motor and transmission and not an original 5 speed. Guess I should have been able to spot the engine - such a rookie. Anyway, now I know!

Thanks all.