Results 1 to 26 of 26

Thread: How rare is an original 5 speed manual 240z?

  1. #1
    Registered User GeoJoe's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-28971
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    107

    Default How rare is an original 5 speed manual 240z?

    The 1973 240z that I've recently purchased is a 5mt. I assumed that it had some work done on it to convert it to a 5mt with a newer transmission, maybe from a 280z. However with some research and a Hayens manual, it seems that I have an original 5 speed based on my VIN and this page below. I'm wondering about how to verify that it is truly an original 5mt and if this is a big deal or not. Thanks!

    HLS30167378 is my VIN

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image.jpg 
Views:	211 
Size:	189.1 KB 
ID:	60963
    Last edited by GeoJoe; 02-09-2013 at 06:14 PM.

  2. #2
    No more body roll! SteveJ's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-5413
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Gainesville, GA
    Age
    54
    Posts
    3,651

    Default

    It's easy to verify. If the VIN is from America, it was not originally a 5 speed.
    73 240Z
    74 260Z

    Blue's collection of tech tips - A great place to look for answers
    XenonS30 -The cheap source for FSMs
    Georgia Z Club
    Fiddling with Z Cars - Z car tips & tricks and pictures of my car-loving life.
    Steve's CARtography - Just car pictures.

  3. #3
    Registered User GeoJoe's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-28971
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    So maybe my Z came via Canada? Or overseas?

  4. #4
    No more body roll! SteveJ's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-5413
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Gainesville, GA
    Age
    54
    Posts
    3,651

    Default

    Actually, it's more like the Haynes manual is wrong.
    73 240Z
    74 260Z

    Blue's collection of tech tips - A great place to look for answers
    XenonS30 -The cheap source for FSMs
    Georgia Z Club
    Fiddling with Z Cars - Z car tips & tricks and pictures of my car-loving life.
    Steve's CARtography - Just car pictures.

  5. #5
    Rust Free'ish zKars's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-12190
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Calgary, AB Canada
    Posts
    1,256

    Default

    Canada =USA in this one case...

    Now we need detailed pictures of the trans to look for clues to see if its a 280zx or 280z 5 speed, or a roadster transplate or a true non-NorthAm 5 speed.
    Last edited by zKars; 02-09-2013 at 06:38 PM.
    -----------------------------------------
    Jim
    73 240Z HLS30 149331
    69 510 PL510 77603

    www.zKars.com
    www.calgaryzclub.ca
    Reference materials
    www.xenonS30.com

  6. #6
    Registered User GeoJoe's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-28971
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveJ View Post
    Actually, it's more like the Haynes manual is wrong.
    I suspected this. Gotta get it on the lift, pics to follow.

  7. #7
    No more body roll! SteveJ's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-5413
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Gainesville, GA
    Age
    54
    Posts
    3,651

    Default

    By the way, where in Georgia are you?
    73 240Z
    74 260Z

    Blue's collection of tech tips - A great place to look for answers
    XenonS30 -The cheap source for FSMs
    Georgia Z Club
    Fiddling with Z Cars - Z car tips & tricks and pictures of my car-loving life.
    Steve's CARtography - Just car pictures.

  8. #8
    Registered User GeoJoe's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-28971
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveJ View Post
    By the way, where in Georgia are you?
    Just down the road from you in Buford!

  9. #9
    No more body roll! SteveJ's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-5413
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Gainesville, GA
    Age
    54
    Posts
    3,651

    Default

    I'm in the Forsyth county part of Gainesville. Do you have ready access to a lift? You might have two new best friends who live in Forsyth county.
    73 240Z
    74 260Z

    Blue's collection of tech tips - A great place to look for answers
    XenonS30 -The cheap source for FSMs
    Georgia Z Club
    Fiddling with Z Cars - Z car tips & tricks and pictures of my car-loving life.
    Steve's CARtography - Just car pictures.

  10. #10
    Registered User GeoJoe's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-28971
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Naw, I'm dealing with a guy in the Sugar Hill area off Peachtree Industrial who restores only old Z's. I just got it a couple weeks ago and trying to get on his schedule for a full once-over. He's got an awesome set of tools... Haha

  11. #11
    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-2116
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    London, England, UK.
    Posts
    3,023

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveJ View Post
    Actually, it's more like the Haynes manual is wrong.
    The Haynes manual is correct*. You guys are just not understanding the differences between an HLS30U and an HLS301 ( or an HS30U ).



    *Shocking, but true in this case.....

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-26864
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Durango, Colorado, United States
    Posts
    692

    Default

    How rare? Impossibly rare.

  13. #13
    Registered User GeoJoe's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-28971
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    So if the Haynes manual is correct, what is the difference between an HLS30U and an HLS301 ( or an HS30U )?


    Here's the VIN badge from my Z. So, is it an original 5sp based on this and the Haynes manual?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image.jpg 
Views:	114 
Size:	122.0 KB 
ID:	60979
    Last edited by GeoJoe; 02-10-2013 at 05:33 AM.

  14. #14
    No more body roll! SteveJ's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-5413
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Gainesville, GA
    Age
    54
    Posts
    3,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HS30-H View Post
    The Haynes manual is correct*. You guys are just not understanding the differences between an HLS30U and an HLS301 ( or an HS30U ).



    *Shocking, but true in this case.....
    Alan, would care to elaborate? There is no "U" in the US VINs, and I do not currently have access to my Haynes manual to read the VIN explanation in context.
    73 240Z
    74 260Z

    Blue's collection of tech tips - A great place to look for answers
    XenonS30 -The cheap source for FSMs
    Georgia Z Club
    Fiddling with Z Cars - Z car tips & tricks and pictures of my car-loving life.
    Steve's CARtography - Just car pictures.

  15. #15
    Registered User GeoJoe's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-28971
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Here's the full page from the Haynes manual that started my concerns.
    Trying to figure out the rotate image process....
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image.jpg 
Views:	121 
Size:	164.4 KB 
ID:	60980

  16. #16
    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-2116
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    London, England, UK.
    Posts
    3,023

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveJ View Post
    Alan, would care to elaborate? There is no "U" in the US VINs, and I do not currently have access to my Haynes manual to read the VIN explanation in context.
    I don't want to sound rude, but this is pretty basic stuff we're talking about here....

    The north American market 'Datsun 240Z' didn't have a 'U' in its VIN prefix, but it had the 'U' suffix in its factory model variant code. In Japan they called it the 'Katashiki'. For the 'U' suffixed models, there were extra sub-variants depending upon the sales destination. The ful codes were not affixed to the car, and are not to be confused with the full VIN number / body serial number / 'Shatai Bango'.

    The RHD export 'HS30U' models also didn't have that 'U' in their VIN / body numbers, but it was there in the 'Katashiki' and that's why Haynes - following the example of the factory workshop manuals - put it in their manuals.

    The 'HLS301' was the LHD export market 'Datsun 240Z' which was manufactured specifically for the mainland European market. It had the FS5C71-A 5-speed transmission as standard equipment ( as did the 'HS30U' ). It was only the north American market cars that didn't get a 5-speed trans as standard equipment.



    Having said all that, GeoJoe's car - if it's a north American market model - would almost certainly not have been equipped with a 5-speed trans when it left the factory.

  17. #17
    No more body roll! SteveJ's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-5413
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Gainesville, GA
    Age
    54
    Posts
    3,651

    Default

    Alan, I don't take it as rude, but without the specific knowledge you cite, it is easy to misunderstand what the Haynes manual intended to communicate. As usual, your impecible research/historical knowledge reveals more to the group, and I appreciate the full description.
    73 240Z
    74 260Z

    Blue's collection of tech tips - A great place to look for answers
    XenonS30 -The cheap source for FSMs
    Georgia Z Club
    Fiddling with Z Cars - Z car tips & tricks and pictures of my car-loving life.
    Steve's CARtography - Just car pictures.

  18. #18
    Supporting Member
    Member ID
    CZCC-12938
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    ON
    Posts
    2,232

    Default

    I don't believe the average consumer or Z enthusiast in the US ever had much of a need or desire to know what the individual market designations were/are. It is very important in the manufacturing process to ensure the correct parts are being installed. Each model designation is defined by design as well as mandated vehicle conformance to individual markets. The guy behind the parts counter would certainly be aware of the different "sub models", but the customer, not so much.
    This information is interesting and if you look at this page taken from Nissan's "Outline Specifications", you can see how helpful this info would be for someone who is trying to make sense of their transition year Z. I believe it would take a lifetime and then some to learn all the secrets and intricacies of the S30.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	02.jpg 
Views:	136 
Size:	129.9 KB 
ID:	60982  

  19. #19
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4148
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Age
    67
    Posts
    3,854

    Default

    This may help - two pages from the May 1970 Service Bulletin
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ServBul_5-70_vol125-01.jpg 
Views:	130 
Size:	66.9 KB 
ID:	60985   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ServBul_5-70_vol125-02.jpg 
Views:	116 
Size:	74.6 KB 
ID:	60986  
    Enjoy the Ride
    HLS30-00026
    HLS30-00027
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cwenzel/index.html
    Go Gators
    Go Butler Bulldogs

  20. #20
    Registered User GeoJoe's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-28971
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Thanks all. Great group here full of knowledge.

  21. #21
    ++++++++ HS30-H's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-2116
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    London, England, UK.
    Posts
    3,023

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer View Post
    I don't believe the average consumer or Z enthusiast in the US ever had much of a need or desire to know what the individual market designations were/are.
    To be fair, historically the situation was probably pretty much the same outside the US too. However, we've spent lot of time on this forum over the years discussing this very topic and these very terms. It would be nice to think that some of that would have rubbed off, and that people would not be quite so incredulous to hear that an HLS30-prefixed 'Datsun 240Z' might have come from the factory with an FS5C71-A trans and 3.9:1 diff as standard equipment somewhere in the world ( "impossibly rare"....? ). After all, as yourself and 26th-Z have shown, it's all in the factory manuals and service bulletins.....



    On the subject of suffixes, spare a thought for the Japanese market. In October 1971, there were more prefixes and suffixes attached to the 'S30' series code than you could shake a stick at:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Oct71 - 221 book - Katashiki.jpg 
Views:	127 
Size:	88.8 KB 
ID:	60990  

  22. #22
    Supporting Member
    Member ID
    CZCC-12938
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    ON
    Posts
    2,232

    Default

    If only I had the time.

    A wall poster showing the entire S30 family tree would be a wonderful thing. Especially if it was done in a manner that would explain the reasons for and describe each variant in detail. It would likely require a fair amount of wall space but would be an effective way to put it all in perspective. It would be a great way to add to the ambiance of the man cave as well.

  23. #23
    Her Majesty the 26th 26th-Z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-4148
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Age
    67
    Posts
    3,854

    Default

    That's a pretty good idea, geezer!

    Also, this is the very enthusiast site (out of all of them) you will find such information. The point was made several years ago that without knowing as much of the full story / history, one does not really understand the car. It is such a broad story and I don't think one can study the subject of the S30 enough. Fascinating story and what a great automobile to be enthusiastic about!
    Enjoy the Ride
    HLS30-00026
    HLS30-00027
    http://home.earthlink.net/~cwenzel/index.html
    Go Gators
    Go Butler Bulldogs

  24. #24
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-15177
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    74

    Default

    5 speed is not rare in an Australian 240z. All zeds came with 5 speed as standard. In fact, I have never seen a 4 speed here nor probably ever will since no one wants them.

  25. #25
    It's awesome bartsscooterservice's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-28929
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Gendt, The Netherlands
    Age
    33
    Posts
    857

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Webmanic70 View Post
    5 speed is not rare in an Australian 240z. All zeds came with 5 speed as standard. In fact, I have never seen a 4 speed here nor probably ever will since no one wants them.
    So maybe just the US..? I'm not the expert in this to. Wiki says about the 240Z:

    Four-speed manual transmission: 3.364:1 (37:11)
    Five-speed manual transmission: 3.90:1 (39:10) (not available in US)

    Best thing for GeoJoe is to check the gearbox, and we'll know
    HLS30 32581, 5/71 Matching numbers

    Jay Leno : You know one week after the Americans have walked on the moon, the Japanese introduced this sports car, and…if you’re a car guy pretty equal. I mean walking on the moon was pretty good, but how many times you’d gonna walk on the moon? But here was an affordable sports car that had real performance and looked like it cost a lot more than it did.

  26. #26
    Registered User GeoJoe's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-28971
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Follow up now that the Z has been on a lift, it's got a full 280z swap of motor and transmission and not an original 5 speed. Guess I should have been able to spot the engine - such a rookie. Anyway, now I know!

    Thanks all.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. 6 speed manual for L-series engine?
    By kensval in forum Drivetrain Mods
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 10-13-2011, 08:11 AM
  2. 4 speed manual and R200 differential oil weight
    By zmaster in forum Engine and Drivetrain (S30)
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 04-07-2008, 05:03 PM
  3. Original Australian 240Z car manual
    By That Ozzy Guy in forum Australia and New Zealand
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-11-2003, 04:27 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •