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Thread: Tachometer/igniton/distributor

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    Default Tachometer/igniton/distributor

    Ok, so I have a 73 240z all stock. I currently have a blaster 2 ignition coil. The Tachometer worked with the original ignition coil. However does not with this one. I bought the 8920 adapter. However thats usless unless I buy the 200+ dollar 6A/AL. anyways, my question is to get it working what are my options besides buying the 6A. even if its a little more money. Like could I buy a MSD dizzy and a tachometer from a 280z or zx. or even a tach from speedhut. I kinda dont really want the adapters. and I want to avoid adding extra wires. So i guess you could say im looking for a almost just bolt in solution. Ive searched the thread over on hybridz but their replys seem to take a few weeks to months, I kinda need to get this going asap. Thanks for your thought and ideas. and if you have done something to your ignition set up please share. Thanks guys!

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    You never answered the question about what you're trying to do over on Hybridz. And the last reply on that thread was three days ago, not weeks or months.

    Put the stock coil back on if you want the tach to work.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Your right I did not. But in one of the last post I posted I simply stated that im trying to get my tach to work. pretty plain and simple. I would put it back on, however I do not have it. and ya I did start asking about some info in April. But your right i didnt exactly state what was going on. Ive been trying to make that more clear. now that were past my mistakes i have admitted to can we work on a solution. Heres exactly what im trying to do. Get my tach to work with my current ignition coil. I dont really want to buy a 6A or AL. So knowing that. Is there something I can do with buying a different distributor and tachometer or not?

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    The Blaster 2 coil has 0.7 ohms primary resistance and the stock 73 240Z has 1.5 to 1.7. It's not the right coil for the 240Z ignition system, despite what MSD's sales literature implies. Could be why the tach doesn't work, you're passing too much current through the tach.

    Good luck with the problem and the attitude.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    This topic has come up before. I replied in the thread below, but I think that my understanding was off. With the Blaster 2 and points you're supposed to install an extra 0.8 resistor. Which would drop the primary resistance to 1.5 ohms, the original value. That might be your solution. Might also be what Nigel was referring to in your Hybridz thread. And, it's in the MSD instructions.

    http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/e...-unstable.html

    Instructions:

    Blaster 2 Coil w/Ballast & Hardware - 8203
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    3ryce, it would help if you were to provide additional info about your car. What type of ignition are you using? Points? Pertronix? Electronic module from a newer Z? Other? Anyhow, from what I can determine your car is running fine and primary goal is to get a functioning tach. So go buy an aftermarket tach already. That is your easiest and cheapest solution. As for the use of the adapter with or without the MSD ignition system, ask MSD, it's there product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zed Head View Post
    The Blaster 2 coil has 0.7 ohms primary resistance and the stock 73 240Z has 1.5 to 1.7. It's not the right coil for the 240Z ignition system, despite what MSD's sales literature implies. Could be why the tach doesn't work, you're passing too much current through the tach.

    Good luck with the problem and the attitude.
    Thank you thats alot more information than ive ever gotten. I do not have an attitude. not trying to. but anyways. thanks for the information its new and what im looking for. Which wires would I have to add more resistance to? one of the wires on the balisist.

    Quote Originally Posted by beermanpete View Post
    3ryce, it would help if you were to provide additional info about your car. What type of ignition are you using? Points? Pertronix? Electronic module from a newer Z? Other? Anyhow, from what I can determine your car is running fine and primary goal is to get a functioning tach. So go buy an aftermarket tach already. That is your easiest and cheapest solution. As for the use of the adapter with or without the MSD ignition system, ask MSD, it's there product.
    Its all stock. beermanpete. only thing not original is the MSD blaster 2 ignition coil. Im pretty sure and according to the fsm its current point as well. Oh and about a different new tachometer. ide have to make sure it was a current type pick up right? and the current one is based on an inductive loop correct? so ide have to kinda match that? and even then would i still have to install some more resistance to get the new one to work as well? thanks sorry for all the questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zed Head View Post
    This topic has come up before. I replied in the thread below, but I think that my understanding was off. With the Blaster 2 and points you're supposed to install an extra 0.8 resistor. Which would drop the primary resistance to 1.5 ohms, the original value. That might be your solution. Might also be what Nigel was referring to in your Hybridz thread. And, it's in the MSD instructions.

    http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/e...-unstable.html

    Instructions:

    Blaster 2 Coil w/Ballast & Hardware - 8203
    I will check out the links. if i could get away with that then that would be my solution. do you know if it says where to add the resistor to?

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    Open the link labeled Blaster 2 Coil w/Ballast..., then click on the tab that says Instructions, to see the drawing of wire connections. It's a PDF file.

    Of course, you're probably on a phone with a tiny screen so won't be able to open or see the file. If so, you'll have to borrow a computer with a big screen.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    ya, been on my phone. haha. im about to check it out now. on my comp.

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    I did not get a ballast with mine. Ill have to go see if I can find one at some auto store.

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    I would install that with my current ballast correct? to give it the correct ohms. no I would replace it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3ryce View Post
    Thank you thats alot more information than ive ever gotten. I do not have an attitude. not trying to. but anyways. thanks for the information its new and what im looking for. Which wires would I have to add more resistance to? one of the wires on the balisist.


    Its all stock. beermanpete. only thing not original is the MSD blaster 2 ignition coil. Im pretty sure and according to the fsm its current point as well. Oh and about a different new tachometer. ide have to make sure it was a current type pick up right? and the current one is based on an inductive loop correct? so ide have to kinda match that? and even then would i still have to install some more resistance to get the new one to work as well? thanks sorry for all the questions.



    I will check out the links. if i could get away with that then that would be my solution. do you know if it says where to add the resistor to?
    You want to buy a tach that uses a voltage pick-up. This will have a wire that connects to the negative terminal of the coil. Most aftermarket tachs are this type. Considering that no new cars have points anymore some aftermarket tachs might not work with a points type ignition system so make sure to choose a tach that very clearly is designed to work with a points type ignition system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beermanpete View Post
    You want to buy a tach that uses a voltage pick-up. This will have a wire that connects to the negative terminal of the coil. Most aftermarket tachs are this type. Considering that no new cars have points anymore some aftermarket tachs might not work with a points type ignition system so make sure to choose a tach that very clearly is designed to work with a points type ignition system.
    Thanks for the info. Ill make sure to just call the place first and order it that way. I really want a speed hut guage. but in the mean time im going to see if just this 10$ ballast addition will work or not. Im so ready to get to tuning up my carbs!

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    Alright, so the 0.8 ohm ballast resistor did not work. I hooked it up just like the pdf file showed. I did some more reading and found out I have a 6 or 7 series. So I believe ill need to pick up I believe 6AL. Ill have to call MSD and double check. But I do have some other question. I got pictures too. But I tore back some taping around the wires. I think part of whats confusing me is the fact that in the haynes manual the wire diagrams show a GW wire going into the ballast and some wiring coming out the other side connecting to a BW wire which is going to the igntion switch. Also Shows a BW wire coming from the positive side of the coil and going to the tach, looks like it loops and turns GW which turns into a GL wire going to the ignition switch. on my wire harness I could find the GW wire till I tore some loom back. What I found was the GW wire. then a BW wire coming off that going to the resistor and then on the other side of the resistor a BW wire going right back to the GW wire where the first BW coming off the GW wire is. That really confuses me. I get that its an inductive loop and current triggered. I probably dont understand it tho.



    Ok this shows the GW wire. see how the BW wires connected to it? the other ends of thos go to the resistor. doesnt make sense to me cause I thought that current wants to flow freely and if theres a short cut then its gonna take it. pretty much i think the way its set up doesnt work. Pretty much made the GW wire split into two.



    this picture just shows the BW wires that are connected to the GW wire.



    this one just shows a solid black wire coming from the loom. it was split into two. one goes to the - neg. side of the coil and the other goes to the point on the dizzy.


    all in all i think some wiring is wrong. but i could be wrong cause im not to familiar with this and wiring in general.

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    And beermanpete. if i got a voltage pick up tach wouldnt i need to swap out the dizzy too?

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    im sure the wiring is right. just doesnt make sense to me how its wired in with the resistor. oh well. however ive been researching the 280zx dizzy conversion and how it works with the tach. so i looked up online at my local jy and located a 280zx 83 and will just spend that money to get the dizzy and e 12 80 thingy and ya. hopefully that solves my problem. have this link here too.http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/d...tor/index.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3ryce View Post
    And beermanpete. if i got a voltage pick up tach wouldnt i need to swap out the dizzy too?
    No, the aftermarket tach will work with the stock ignition system. The only modification to the igniton system will be to replace the current pick-up loop with a piece of wire to complete the primary circuit.

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    Thanks beermanpete. So i went to the jy and the 280zx was still there. i might try to talk my dad into heling me to get the diff from it. any ways. I pulled the dizzy off of it. its an 83 280zx. the ICM doesnt say e 1280. but it does have the cb points and it looks like it has some other points on the side that say I W. Does that matter? or should i get an e 1280 module? also got an altenator from a 280zx as well non turbo. hopefully that will work.

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    And hey beermanpete, would you please look at the pictures i posted and double check the wiring. looking at the link here. http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/d...tor/index.html the way it says its wired seem to be different. but if you look at the wiring diagram. it shows a BW wire coming from the key run position going to the ballast. however if you look at the pictures i posted it looks like its missing. maybe its fine, but ide like a second or third opinion of the wiring. Im the third owner but the second owner had someone in cali that had a shop in mexico where they worked on the car. so idk whats been done to it.
    Last edited by 3ryce; 08-02-2013 at 11:47 AM.

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    I assume you mean the photos in post #14. Your wiring does look like there is a mistake. The black wire going from the coil - to the points (in the distributor) should not have any connections to the wire loom. The splice from the green/white to the black/white looks factory. Where did the green/white wire go in the last pic? The green/white is the starter bypass wire and should connect to the coil + or the coil side of the ballast.

    You need to identify the 2 black/white wires. One comes for the ignition switch and will have +12 volts with the key is on. This wire connects to the ballast. The other black/white wires comes from the tach and goes to the coil +. The green/white wire is the starter bypass and only has +12 volts when the the ignition key is in the START position. This wire also runs to the tach and completes the loop up to the tach (the return is the second black/white wire). If you reverse the 2 black/white wires the car will run but the tach won't work and the ballas is out of curcuit so the coil will overheat after a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beermanpete View Post
    I assume you mean the photos in post #14. Your wiring does look like there is a mistake. The black wire going from the coil - to the points (in the distributor) should not have any connections to the wire loom. The splice from the green/white to the black/white looks factory. Where did the green/white wire go in the last pic? The green/white is the starter bypass wire and should connect to the coil + or the coil side of the ballast.

    You need to identify the 2 black/white wires. One comes for the ignition switch and will have +12 volts with the key is on. This wire connects to the ballast. The other black/white wires comes from the tach and goes to the coil +. The green/white wire is the starter bypass and only has +12 volts when the the ignition key is in the START position. This wire also runs to the tach and completes the loop up to the tach (the return is the second black/white wire). If you reverse the 2 black/white wires the car will run but the tach won't work and the ballas is out of curcuit so the coil will overheat after a while.
    Ok ill start with picture one. The wire with the arrow and 1. should only be coming from the -neg side of the coil and going to the points. I need to see where that wire goes to. I thought it looked funny cause the wiring diagram doesnt show it connecting to anything else.



    On my post with the pictures post #14 i believe, you asked where did the green wire go. First let me say that i may have had it connected wrong but changing it around didnt change anything, car still started and tach still didnt work. anyways. the GW wire is infact the BW wire #2 and #3. so its like a Y where the stem is GW but the top parts of the Y are BW. that doesnt make sense to me, thos two numbers come from the green wire. That picture was taken before i tore back some more loom to reviel the GW wire. The all BW wire is #1. so pretty much #1 is all BW havent found anything tapped into or from it yet. #2 and #3 go to the GW wire. GW----

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    Sp just a little while ago I disconnected the black wire from the harness, now it just goes from the - neg side of the coil to the points on the dizzy. The tach did not work still, which i expected but it didnt change anything either. I have some pictures I am uploading. In these pictures you will see i have changed the coil with another one. Its name and brand are unknown. The guy i got it from said it might or might not be an orginal z coil. but sense the tach still did not work i believe it to not be an orginal z coil.

    Anyways here are the pictures, i apologize for the messiness. When i get the 280zx dizzy and install it, and try the dizzy upgrade ill let you all know if the tach starts to work.

    another question that poped up, there was a BY wire. this comes from the ignition? well anyways i believe it to be a hot 12+ wire. as i tried to hook it up to the coil and it started with it hooked up. it was just a simple test so right after it started, i turned it off and unhooked the wire from the coil.

    Plug that goes to the back of the tach.


    Back of the tach


    Ignition switch plug


    coil and its wiring.

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    Hmm...your photo shows a 3-wire connector for the tach. The early 240Z used a 4-wire tach that used a current pick-up on the positive side of the coil, like the photo on HybridZ in the tach thread you are posting in. If your tach is a 3-wire tach that would explain the extra black wire on the point side of the coil. Why the tach does not work is still uncertain though. Are you sure the tach is getting power, ground, and the signal from the points?

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    I have a 6/73 240z, perhaps they changed it over for the later models and so on to the 260z. I have found this post cause when you pointed out that i have a three wire tach i went to good ol google and did a search. this is what i found. Tachometer - Page 3 - Ignition and Electrical - HybridZ

    however after reading it i dont think the guy came to a conclusion, or if he did, he didnt post how he solved it. Im going to wait till I do the 280zx dizzy conversion to mess with the tach a little more, however i will hook that black wire i cut back up. ha.

    by the way according to autozone they should have the dizzy in on the 6th.

    Also beermanpete, THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME WITH THIS!!!! I feel like im on the way to solving this issue. and im going to document it on here for many other to hopefully search and find. I do wonder when they decided to switch the 240z's to three wire? oh well.

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    Alright, ive installed the 280zx dizzy. It starts and runs and sounds pretty good. I followed the wiring from this where it talks about getting the tachometer to work with early z's. http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/d...tor/index.html The tachometer still wont work. I have a three wire tachometer. Ive connected the GW and BW wire together and put on positive side. Also there is a wire coming from positive side to the e 12 80 and the neg side to the e 12 80. Is there something else i have to do sense its a three wire tachometer? I also have bought a 280z tach from someone on hybridz. will be here in the next few days. Ill try that one to see if it works or not. ide like to keep the orginal z if at all possible.

    heres an overview of it all.


    close up of the e-12-80
    the black wire is going to the neg side of coil. and the grey wire is going to the positive side


    here is the coil side of it all.

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    Cool. Since you have a 3-wire tach you don't need to bother with the early tach stuff. That is only required for the 4-wire tach. Try the new tach when it arrives. That will likely solve the problem with the tach. Also, you might need the resistor as shown in the diagram for the fuel injected model.

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    ok thanks, ill give it a try when it arives and let you know how it goes. Thanks again for the help.

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    Ok, got the 280z tach, swapped its guts to my 240z tach. it works!!!!!!!!! well anyways, i now can tune the carbs! cause the tach works. haha. thanks for the help beermanpete! also i hope this thread helps others. if anyone needs pictures ill post up what i can.

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    Excellent!

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