Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Thoughts on sacrificial anodes for frame rails.

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-29883
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Portland, Or
    Age
    71
    Posts
    283

    Default Thoughts on sacrificial anodes for frame rails.

    Has anyone ever tried sacrificial anodes attached to the inside or outside of the frame rails to ward off rust? They could be made of zinc, magnesium or aluminum. In the shipyards they use zinc ingots cast with steel straps that weld onto the hull. They had to be replaced every few years due to the effects of salt water corrosion but on a car they should last a long time. Also, any thoughts about the use of cold galvanizing spray as a bare metal primer?
    My 74 S30 project will be going up on stands soon so I can finish opening my holiday present, Then I'll find out whether I got gold or a lump of coal. I've tried many rust treatment products over the years with dissapointing results. This time, it's going to be phosphoric acid to convert the rust, if I can't remove it, and a topcoat, as yet not selected. If possible, I'm going to include an anode to prevent new rust from forming.
    I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts about the idea or any products already out there that could be used as a sacrificial anode.
    Mark in Portland

  2. #2
    Walmart greeter Mikes Z car's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-18366
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,041

    Default

    I read a scathing rejection of those on car sacrificial anodes once. Anodes on ships work because they can impose a current flow through the anode and the low resistance water. Getting electricity to flow through high resistance air is more difficult. I'd love to see additional opinions on sacrificial anodes on cars. I used to be the anti corrosion guy where I worked (among other nefarious duties) not that that makes me any kind of expert, it just makes me interested.
    I remember reading the rust bullet website where they tested phosphoric acid conversion compared to other protections. Their testing, if assumed to be unbiased, showed other protections worked a lot better (rust bullet was one of the protections that worked better than phosphoric acid). There are dissenting opinions no doubt. The local Z mechanic used phosphoric acid on his Z car resto, I went with rust bullet for painting on surfaces and transtar amber spray for interior areas like rocker panels.
    Mike in Boise
    Last edited by Mikes Z car; 01-20-2014 at 01:20 PM.

  3. #3
    Registered User ajmcforester's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-7115
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Posts
    1,221

    Default

    FYI sacrificial metal can create rust spot because they focus the deterioration to a specific spot. In a ship the weld new plates the mount the rods or bars. Go look at a hot water heater it has a rod and the first place it will rust out is the connecting points. If you don't replace offten just like a hot water heater your asking for trouble. I know it was something they were selling year a go, but it just does not make sense to do. I would spend the money and time getting rid of the rust you have and sealing the metal.

  4. #4
    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-7641
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    NS
    Posts
    4,085

    Default

    Sacrificial anodes are specific to where metals conducting electricity are immersed in water. Or where induced currents occur in a metal in water where the metal moves or the water flows. Since the Z is not driving around knee deep in puddles, a sacrificial anode will not function.

    The metal needs to be coated for chemical corrosion protection.

    The power returns for the lighting circuits could be improved by running parallel copper wire paths in the uni-body or using discrete return cables to bypass the uni-body completely
    Last edited by Blue; 01-21-2014 at 06:18 AM.
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  5. #5
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-29883
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Portland, Or
    Age
    71
    Posts
    283

    Default

    I'm inclined to agree with all of you. Has anyone tried any of those rust preventers that run a trickle of current through the chassis either with or without sacrificial anodes? Some people swear by them, others swear at them. I'm assuming the supplied trickle of electricity is a substitute for the wet conditions that would normally drive the galvanic process. Testimonials, Anyone?
    Mark in Portland

  6. #6
    Registered User ajmcforester's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-7115
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Posts
    1,221

    Default

    I looked into several things since I started the restoration of my Z car. I do research at work and what I saw as evidence on how well this works on non-aquatic devices had questionable methods or used inferences that may or may not relate to improved rust protection in normal atmospheric conditions. Some of the studies made statements that fell within the statistical variance.

    I'm such an anti rust guy that I even have looked at having the body zinc plated, primer powder-coated, electrostatic treated, and many other methods to reduce rust issues. Rust is something you got to work with by sealing and protecting the metal surfaces from contaminates and chemicals that can create oxidation. The cost of these questionable systems you can use a time test method of painting the metal then using a oil to keep water and other chemicals from entering chips and cracks in the paint. 1-2 cans on Gibbs oil will do the inside of doors, undercarriage, engine compartment and even a little left over to lube a couple stuck fasteners. Then use lock tight and anti-seize on the fasteners to keep water and chemicals from rusting threaded surfaces when ever you take a fastener out. This works very well for me, and I can tell when I missed one of the two treatments of oil each year on my daily driver, and the cost to keep up with anodes and cleaning rust off the contact points you might save money.

  7. #7
    Casey H Casey_z's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-21264
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Smithville Ontario
    Age
    67
    Posts
    207

    Default

    I work in the pipeline industry.
    We install cathodic protection and it like that on ships depends on current going to ground and degrading the anode in the ground away from the pipe. You need to maintain 3ft. separation or the pipeline is subject to corrosion at that point. It is the same principle as on a ship using water as a ground. So if you could isolate the car and cadweld a anode to it and bury it it would work pretty good.lol You wouldn't get far.
    I use an oil spray called Rust Check in all the susceptible spots. It is designed to creep into seams etc.
    Last edited by Casey_z; 01-21-2014 at 08:06 PM.

  8. #8
    Registered User ajmcforester's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-7115
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Posts
    1,221

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey_z View Post
    I work in the pipeline industry.
    We install cathodic protection and it like that on ships depends on current going to ground and degrading the anode in the ground away from the pipe. You need to maintain 3ft. separation or the pipeline is subject to corrosion at that point. It is the same principle as on a ship using water as a ground. So if you could isolate the car and cadweld a anode to it and bury it it would work pretty good.lol You wouldn't get far.
    I use an oil spray called Rust Check in all the susceptible spots. It is designed to creep into seams etc.
    I found one or two of these ground anodes when removing a tree, what fun to find a metal wirer coming up with a tree. Like you stated with the ground you need tranfer the electrons from point a to point b, how can you do that with just air

  9. #9
    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-7641
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    NS
    Posts
    4,085

    Default

    Flow can induce current at a distance. I am guessing this is the pipeline separation rule of thunb mentioned above.

    We get induced currents with submarine cables caused by the flow of tides/bottom currents over them. We also get esoteric parasitic currents from solar emissions every now and then...yes we watch "space weather".
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


  10. #10
    '72 240Z(G) 3.2L
    Member ID
    CZCC-7328
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    MA
    Age
    70
    Posts
    1,074

    Default

    Since I sell frame rails for S30 Zs let me put forth a thought or two.

    The OEM rails started rusting on the boat coming over here. Even so most lasted years and years before they needed to be replaced.

    If those OEM rails had had some version of rust protection there would be more Zs in operational condition today.

    The rails I sell are nearly three times thicker than the OEM ones.

    If you didn't seam seal and rust proof them they would likely last for years before needing to be replaced.

    With protection they are likely to last for a few decades (if you stop driving your Z when there is salt on the roads).

    Anode sanode. These are cars not boats.

    So clean up and or replace your rails, put on some protection and go drive your car.

    How long will the rest of your Z last?
    if a little knowledge can make you dangerous, I'm a little dangerous

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-29044
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Oriental, NC
    Age
    73
    Posts
    33

    Default

    Gnosez, do you have a web site showing your rails? I would be interested in checking them out.
    Charlie

  12. #12
    '72 240Z(G) 3.2L
    Member ID
    CZCC-7328
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    MA
    Age
    70
    Posts
    1,074
    Last edited by gnosez; 01-23-2014 at 09:10 AM.
    if a little knowledge can make you dangerous, I'm a little dangerous

  13. #13
    Rust Free'ish zKars's Avatar
    Member ID
    CZCC-12190
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Calgary, AB Canada
    Posts
    1,256

    Default

    I remember Canadian Tire had a cathoidic protection device for sale a while ago.

    I found this on their web site. Read the customer review. I think that will answer the question at hand.

    Canadian Tire - CounterAct Electronic Rust Protection System customer reviews - product reviews - read top consumer ratings

    "I bought this device hoping it will help to prolong the life of my new Infinite G35S which already a 4 years old car by now. Two days after I installed this unit, its LED no longer blinks. Exchanged for a new one. 3 weeks later, I found a newly developed rust spot on the surface of the car. Called the owner of this counteract company. He confirmed that the unit will *not* help to prevent the rust from forming. It only delays a few more hours..."

    Most of the other reviews are equally as negative and some are just hilarious to read. Especially the warranty related ones.
    Last edited by zKars; 01-23-2014 at 10:09 AM.
    -----------------------------------------
    Jim
    73 240Z HLS30 149331
    69 510 PL510 77603

    www.zKars.com
    www.calgaryzclub.ca
    Reference materials
    www.xenonS30.com

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Member ID
    CZCC-29883
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Portland, Or
    Age
    71
    Posts
    283

    Default

    I read the reviews. As expected, some swear by them others swear at them. A question that arises in their use is continuity to all parts of the chassis or the lack there of. The only one I've seen installed is on a Scarab. It is driven on a very limited basis in dry weather and stored in a very dry shop. It came on the car so the owner doesn't know anything about it but he has left it on just in case it does work. There seems to be two types of these that supply a trickle of current through the chassis. Ruststop.net advertises a unit that adds sacrificial anodes to the system that are attached to the chassis and wired into the unit. Honestly, I don't know if this is an improvement or just more smoke and mirrors. I tend to think that adding anodes to the mix could improve it but I don't have the expertise to really know.
    I don't plan on abandoning any rust removal or treatment of the conventional type, just want to try to improve on the longevity of my second Z. I still have my first Z, a Series 1, if anyone needs goodies from it.
    Mark in Portland

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. frame rails in miami
    By 280babeh in forum Help Me !!
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-20-2011, 12:59 PM
  2. Replacement Frame Rails
    By texasz in forum Body and Paint (S30)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-19-2011, 09:57 AM
  3. I need Frame Rails for my 82 280zx!
    By mylesblaq in forum Open S130 ZX Discussions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-01-2008, 07:46 PM
  4. Doubler over for'd frame rails
    By Sailor Bob in forum Body and Paint (S30)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-28-2007, 04:04 PM
  5. Frame Rails
    By texasz in forum Help Me !!
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-03-2003, 09:16 AM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •