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Thread: Why do people still buy cars from this company?

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    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
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    Default Why do people still buy cars from this company?

    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


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    Yep things go wrong if it can , it will .
    You should see the boat anchor of things hanging off of key rings these days !
    Nail clippers,beer bottle openers, ID tags , a dozen other non auto related keys, padlocks, phones, mp3's, assorted metal figurines , a compass, even 3 sets of other car keys.
    Then they wonder why the ignition assembly gets jammed or worn out so quickly , or in this case shuts off in an intersection ! I would hazard a guess that a small percentage is actually GM 'S fault . The rest of the blame HAS to be put squarely on the driver . In no way will one or two keys turn an ignition off by being jostled by a bumpy road surface . No way hose .

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    Registered User siteunseen's Avatar
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    Unions, in my opinion.
    1972 240Z #918 New Sight Orange
    1977 280Z #305 Light Blue Metallic
    1972 240Z #110 Persimmons Red

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    Registered User 30 Ounce's Avatar
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    303 out of how many millions sold?
    74 260Z late
    3.0 liter Rebello kit
    Rebello mod. SU's

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    Made in America too. No guarantees of quality anywhere.

    SATURN Ion Sedan models

    Just saying, it always comes down to someone's decision. Usually some executive whose bonus is tied to short-term profits. There's probably a spreadsheet somewhere at GM showing how much each death or injury will cost the company versus the cost of fixing the problem(s). Like Ford and their Pinto.
    Last edited by Zed Head; 03-14-2014 at 12:33 PM.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Registered User 30 Ounce's Avatar
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    I would rather be in an accident in a "defective cobalt" than a 70's Z! Don't get me wrong, I love my Z but it doesn't compare to the crumple zones built into modern cars. Most accidents would be survivable if people would simply wear their seat belts. I would bet that most of those killed did NOT wear seatbelts and/or there were extenuating circumstances to lead to their demise.
    74 260Z late
    3.0 liter Rebello kit
    Rebello mod. SU's

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    Yeah, I wouldn't want to crash a Z. The results would not be pretty. That said, I have a big problem with "crumple zones". IMO in the name of "safety" they are making cars disposable. A better idea is to bolt the crumple zones to a stronger central chassis, much like a survival cell. If you crunch the car, simply unbolt the damage & replace it. I remember driving the cars from the 50s & 60s. You could still drive one home after the average accident & in my case even a roll-over. The roll-over went to the body shop for an easy repair. 1969 $750.00 Yes the cars were heavy then, but so are the cars of today. Make-em stronger not weaker. Mark in Portland.

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    Barn Find Daily Driver Captain_Zeros's Avatar
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    Everyone knows how much tougher cars were back in the day
    Every piece of metal that bends and crumples is a piece of your body that isn't bending and crumpling.

    Edit: Says the guy who daily drives a 40 year old sportscar made of japanese beer cans
    1973 240Z w/ roundtop carbs, 280zx e12-80 distributor, 280zx alternator, late model Altima junkyard electric fans. 115 Blue Metallic & white side stripes.

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    That ''poof'' of brown at impact is rust off of the Belair metal - I wonder if a rust free car would do any better ?
    The lawsuit is about failed ignitions - turning off at the absolute worst time , not crumple zones btw .

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    I buy GM trucks because they're powerful and reliable. I wouldn't personally buy a Cobalt, but I've autoxed a turbo one and it was faster than my Miata by a few seconds and was fun to drive too. I wouldn't turn down a new Vette or Camaro either...
    Jon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkle View Post
    That ''poof'' of brown at impact is rust off of the Belair metal - I wonder if a rust free car would do any better ?
    The lawsuit is about failed ignitions - turning off at the absolute worst time , not crumple zones btw .
    I know what the lawsuit is about! These people were in accidents where the airbag did not deploy because of a faulty ignition switch. I've seen people with 5 lbs of stuff on their key rings. How much weight do you think these should be designed to handle?
    74 260Z late
    3.0 liter Rebello kit
    Rebello mod. SU's

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    Barn Find Daily Driver Captain_Zeros's Avatar
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    They should install original 240Z ignitions switches, so the key just falls out on the floor while the car stays running
    1973 240Z w/ roundtop carbs, 280zx e12-80 distributor, 280zx alternator, late model Altima junkyard electric fans. 115 Blue Metallic & white side stripes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Ounce View Post
    I know what the lawsuit is about! These people were in accidents where the airbag did not deploy because of a faulty ignition switch. I've seen people with 5 lbs of stuff on their key rings. How much weight do you think these should be designed to handle?
    '' because of a faulty ignition switch ''
    ??????? These switches are being turned enough by heavy key rings being jostled , thus disabling the airbag , or turning the engine off in vulnerable situations . I don't understand what you are trying to point out here ? Are you saying I'm wrong ? To me it's not just the switch , it's the driver more so .

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    There are probably millions or billions of other cars that aren't affected by heavy key rings. That's how the problem would be defined, probably the same in a court of law. Cars are so common that there are a defined set of expectations. Apparently, these cars don't behave as expected. Now if they put a warning label on the dashboard and people ignore it then they could claim consumer fault. If they knew people with heavy key rings had problems and did nothing then it's the producer's fault.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Registered User Walter Moore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Ounce View Post
    303 out of how many millions sold?
    There weren't very many people killed in the "exploding" Ford Pintos either. In fact the one lawsuit that set the whole Pinto recall in motion involved a drunk driver traveling over 80 mph who rear-ended a car that was stopped at a red light. That doesn't change the fact that the car was intrinsically unsafe. It takes a pretty specific, and unusual, series of events for a faulty ignition switch to cause a fatal wreck.

    As for the original question: A large percentage of G.M. sales are driven by employee and supplier discounts. Retirees and their immediate families can continue to use the employee discount for the rest of their life. When you factor that discount into the picture it can make a G.M. much cheaper than the alternatives. The way that system is structured there could be 5 to 10 people eligible for an employee discount per current/retired G.M. employee. That market alone keeps the wheels greased so to speak.
    (Some years G.M. gives retirees discount deals specifically intended to be given to their friends, etc.)
    '71 240Z, Because any fool can drive fast in a straight line.

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    Registered User Mike W's Avatar
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    This is the best reason I can think of..................

    Mike.

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    Executive level fraud has gone on for ages, so no comment on the following link. I just thought it fit the thread topic.

    U.S. eyes bankruptcy link in GM ignition defect probe: report | Reuters
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Half of my Fathers family still works for GM, most of them are laid off half of the year or more. I get a ridiculous discount on GM cars but theres a Dodge/cummins and a Mazda 3 out front, Z in the garage. I wouldn't buy a GM ever. Build quality sucks top to bottom in comparison to most of their competitors. The Corvette might be the only exception, but for the money I would rather have a Porsche, even if it were slower. Im not saying they dont make a decent vehicle, but in every category theres a better option for the same price or better.
    Early 1974 260z
    https://sites.google.com/a/thecomputerrehab.com/260z/

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    The "heavy key ring" thing is misdirection. If you read the NHTSA reports the ignition switches will shut off with only the original key in place. Happened 65 times as the cars were driven off the factory assembly line.

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    Thanks for that reference. The latest NHTSA recall report though, blames it on the the keys. Do you have something from earlier? The general situation has the look of everyone trying to cover their asses, including the government watch-dog. Pretty sad.

    Recalls & Defects | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)

    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/..._ids=14V047000
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Crumudgeon
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    From the first recall notice:

    " In these models, the weight on the key ring and/or road conditions or some other jarring event may cause the ignition switch to move out of the run position, turning off the engine."

    GM engineers noticed the problem during normal road testing back in the early 2000s when only the key was in the ignition. Adding any weight to the key ring (including the stock alarm fob) exacerbates the problem.

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    Nova Scotia,Canada,Earth Blue's Avatar
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    GM is evil... can't say anything but. They are trying to weasel out of being responsible AND sending more money off-shore to China (see links below).

    UN-AMERICAN

    I paid taxes in both USA and Canada when both Govts gave this evil company over $60Billion (49.5USA 10.8CAN)in loans and they did not pay it all back (USA owed 10.5B and CAN 8B).

    DON'T BUY GM

    GM seeks bankruptcy ruling on its product liability protection | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

    GM to invest $12 billion in China and plans more plants | Reuters
    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


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    There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply.
    The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.


    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)



    ZCars in Eastern Canada seaport ready for shipment to Europe

    http://ZSportCanada.com


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