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Thread: Gearbox ID

  1. #1
    Registered User Werup's Avatar
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    Default Gearbox ID

    Hi

    I have already search so many places, and cant really figure out which gearbox the PO installed in my car. Im asking in here because I have to order alot of parts from the US and im currently stock in Norway and my car is in Denmark. But have to order the parts so the car can get road legal this summer My gearbox needs some bushing and some seals, but im not a 100 % sure on what i have.

    Here what i think:

    - 5 speed close ratio from 1981 280z because: one mounting ear - Speedo bolt a 6 o'clock

    What confuses me:

    Short ears for shifter - close to straight gearshifter - bushing installation at shifter

    I have som pictures of gearbox but only installed, hope you guys can help me. Cause I will return in June, way to late to order parts

    Best Regards

    Martin

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Datsun 240z - 03/1971 - HLS30 - 24410:

    So very stock at the moment..

  2. #2
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    The gear shift levers will swap across all 71B transmissions. Even though MSA, for example, sells short shift kits for different year cars.

    And the ears-on-the-shift-mechanism things is wrong I believe. I have a 76 4 speed, and and a 78 and 83 5 speed in the garage and an 80 in the car. The length of the ears doesn't tell anything.

    If you want to get closer to knowing what you have, measure the ratio of 5th gear by marking the driveshaft and turning the engine until the driveshaft turns one revolution. Then see how far the crankshaft rotated. The exhaust hanger and the speedo bolt put you in the 80-83 range. I think that the main difference in parts is the 5th gear synchro ring though. If you're not buying a 5th gear synchro ring, parts for the 80-83 5 speed should work.

    Eurodat knows more and might have some comment.

    1980 - .773
    1981-83 - .745
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

  3. #3
    Registered User Werup's Avatar
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    Default

    Super i was a little unsure on how the items fitted across, Ill try to ask Eurodat then. See if he has anything to add, if not im going to order the seals ect.

    Thanks for your quick reply.

    Best Regards

    Martin
    Datsun 240z - 03/1971 - HLS30 - 24410:

    So very stock at the moment..

  4. #4
    Registered User grannyknot's Avatar
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    Have a look at this,Differential Ratios
    1970 240Z HLS30 01955 March/70

  5. #5
    Registered User Werup's Avatar
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    Thanks Grannyknot i have seen those, but i am not near the car the next month, i simply forgot to check when i was there last :/
    Datsun 240z - 03/1971 - HLS30 - 24410:

    So very stock at the moment..

  6. #6
    Registered User EuroDat's Avatar
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    Hi Martin,
    I got your PM, but thought I would post here.

    Of all the 5 photo's, the first one intrigues me the most. The speedo bolt is positioned at the bottom, but the housing doesn't seem to have the same shape like the later 280ZX transmissions have (See centre photo). It could be a 280ZX 1980 version. I have never seen one of the 1980 versions. Maybe someone here has a photo of a 1980 transmission with this section?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The PO probably used the shifter out of the 240Z. They are, like Zed Head said, interchangable although some do have a slightly different shape.

    Another senario although unlikly: The transmission is from the 720 truck series which had this transmission fitted behind the L20B, Z20, Z22 and Z24 engines. It will fit, but he must have used his 240Z bell housing to do it. He would also use his shifter because the trucks had a longer version. This would mean its a wide ratio transmission. there are 3 versions and the later version being the same as the 280Z wide ratio, but Im no expert on the 720 transmissions.
    This will give you an idea of the ratios used in the 71B.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    You have to order parts to get it road legal?? What do you want to do to the transmission? If its a rebuild (bearings and seals) then even a bearing and synchro kit for a FS5W71C will work with exception of the front cluster shaft bearing. You don't need to know if its a wide or close ratio for those parts.

    Shifter bushings, gaskets, seals and shaft nuts are all available through your local Nissan dealer and the bearings can be purchased at a bearing supplier.
    Ordering a bearing kit from the US can cost a lot more due to shipping.
    If you need part numbers, let me know. I have most of the original and replacement numbers.

    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

  7. #7
    Registered User Werup's Avatar
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    Hi Chas.

    Thanks for your reply. first I'll answer you on why i had to know now. I have to order alot of parts together from US to get it shipped with a freinds who is going to import a car from US. So im using the space in the container for my items, need a new frontwindshield. And i was not sure that the parts i needed where interchangeble But if the nissan dealer have those i get them through him, ill PM you with some questions on part numbers instead.

    So i guess the next thing is to try and turn the gearbox when i get back and ill post i answer to what gear ratio the gearbox have. Did not have to know on what ratio, just hoped that somebody could give me a year of it By the way, it seems like the gearbox has some numbers and har on unit, so i dont think the PO changed the bellhousing. But ill double check when i get back.

    /Martin
    Last edited by Werup; 05-01-2014 at 06:47 AM.
    Datsun 240z - 03/1971 - HLS30 - 24410:

    So very stock at the moment..

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    Wow, that's a good catch on the missing bump. I managed to get a picture of my oily 1980 transmission, by sticking a camera under there and taking a bunch of shots. It has the bump. So does my 83, but the 78 stops sharply at the mid-point parting line. You know though, if you look closely, you can see the bump on Werup's picture. It has a slope to it which doesn't really show in Eurodat's picture, which looks almost perpendicular, maybe due to camera angle. The slope is easily visible on my 83 sitting in the garage, and visible in my oily picture.

    One other thing I notice, which doesn't seem to get mentioned, is that the early transmissions have a double dust shield at the drive shaft yoke. The one on the drive shaft slips in between the aluminum housing and a separate shield on the transmission, with the transmission shield ending up on the outside. On the later transmissions, the driveshaft shield ends up on the outside, they got rid of the shield on the transmission.

    Edit - went a little crazy and retook some pictures, showing the dust shield and the shifter ears. You can see the short ears on the 4 speed, but long on 78 and 83 5 speeds. I almost went overboard and cleaned the garage for better pictures, but managed to stop myself.
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    Last edited by Zed Head; 05-01-2014 at 10:05 AM.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

  9. #9
    Registered User EuroDat's Avatar
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    Nice photo's Thanks Zed. That answers my question on the 1980 box. I have also heard the 1979-80 "close ratio" transmission uses a fibre 5th gear synchro, but like I said, never seen one or had one apart.

    Martin.
    Here are the parts I used in my transmission 2 years ago. The prices are Nissan dealer prices in Holland. I ended up buying a overhaul kit. The parts not in the kit came from the Nissan dealer.
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    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

  10. #10
    Registered User grannyknot's Avatar
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    I had two close ratio trannys apart this winter for rebuilds, one early and one late,
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The only real difference between the two that I could find besides the 2nd and 5th gear ratios was that the early tranny has a cast 1st gear shifter gate (on the left) and later was cast and machined
    onto the 1st gear shift rod. There is also some small changes with square locking keys replacing ball bearing locking keys.
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    Last edited by grannyknot; 05-01-2014 at 05:39 PM.
    1970 240Z HLS30 01955 March/70

  11. #11
    Registered User EuroDat's Avatar
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    Hi Chris,
    That is interesting. Your photo's clearly show brass teeth on the rings on the fifth gear synchros. Like I mentioned, I have read about fibre synchros on the fifth somewhere, but never seen one or known anyone who has. It could be just a myth or in other Nissan models.
    How did you go with your transmission rebuild?
    Thanks for posting
    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

  12. #12
    Registered User Werup's Avatar
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    Thanks Eurodat, thats a big help thanks alot for reply. And Zed, thanks for those pictures aswell, ive got my order down now Zed nothing like some good encouragement to do a clean out

    I will definitely go for an overhaul on the box in the end.

    /Martin
    Datsun 240z - 03/1971 - HLS30 - 24410:

    So very stock at the moment..

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by EuroDat View Post
    Hi Chris,
    That is interesting. Your photo's clearly show brass teeth on the rings on the fifth gear synchros. Like I mentioned, I have read about fibre synchros on the fifth somewhere, but never seen one or known anyone who has. It could be just a myth or in other Nissan models.
    How did you go with your transmission rebuild?
    Thanks for posting
    Chas
    Chas, as you might remember, I was rebuilding my perfectly working close ratio 5 spd tranny because of a buzzing/rattling sound from the stickshift, after rebuilding with new bushings and syncros the same buzzing/rattling is still there and driving me crazy. I rebuilt the spare 5 spd at the same time so I'm going to try the second one and see if that fixes it. I wonder if it could be a something with the universal joints? The sound and most of the vibration disappears when I grab the shift knob. ???
    1970 240Z HLS30 01955 March/70

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    I had a vibration in my 71 that I could feel in the stick but I pretty much ignored it because I was trying to find the 800 lb. bumblebee that came around at 80 mph +. it was so loud it would drown out my AM radio. I went through the trans & linkage, then replaced all six u-joints. b-bee was still there. Next step was to take the drive shaft to have it balanced. as it turned out the shaft was bent ever so slightly.They retubed the drive shaft, put in Spicer u-joints, & gave me a lecture on why I should never buy anything but the best. I couldn't stop grinning at the difference. It not only eliminated the stick & the b-bee vibration, but a few more that I assumed were normal. Check the d-shaft balance & go from there.

  15. #15
    Registered User EuroDat's Avatar
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    I would agree with Mark. Sounds more like a drive shaft problem. Is the rattle speed related or engine revs? If its speed then its a strong possability its in the drive shaft. My tranny makes noise in fifth gear. Forth is so quiet compared to fifth. You don't want to know how much I spent on all the bearings, sleeve and stuff, its a lot better, but still not good.

    I changed my uni-joints in the drive shaft and the two half shafts. I purchased Nissan uni-joints and two sets of circlips for the drive shaft. The front uni needed 2.00 circlips on the yoke and 2.04 on the drive shaft. The rear used 2.02 all round. Make sure you use the same for opposite side cups otherwise you will set the shaft off centre.

    0.04mm doesn't sound much, but Nissan thought it was and I think its important to center the drive shaft as much as possible.
    I used Moog uni-joints on the two half shafts.

    If the uni-joints don't fix it, then checking the balance would be my next step. You can check if its bent by jacking one wheel off the ground and hold a screwdriver so it just touches the centee section of the shaft. With the tranny in neatral, get someone to rotate the wheel by hand. If it has any runout its not a good sign.

    Chas
    Last edited by EuroDat; 05-03-2014 at 01:45 AM.
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    Thanks guys, the buzz/rattling is speed related, I'll pull the DS and start there.
    Chris
    1970 240Z HLS30 01955 March/70

  17. #17
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    Just saying to be sure you have done it.

    Shifter bushings?

    Casey

    Quote Originally Posted by grannyknot View Post
    Thanks guys, the buzz/rattling is speed related, I'll pull the DS and start there.
    Chris
    Last edited by Casey_z; 05-03-2014 at 01:31 PM.
    If you could only go back

  18. #18
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    Casey, yes all three bushings were replaced.

    I've been doing a bit of research on U joints and I have come across the advice to use only Nissan U joints. Can anyone comment on why they are better or different?
    Thanks,
    Chris
    1970 240Z HLS30 01955 March/70

  19. #19
    Registered User EuroDat's Avatar
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    Hi Chris, The Nissan OEM's are better. In quality of metal and craftmanship maybe no better than top quality aftermarket, but you have the possibility to adjust the amount of end clearance with the different size circlips. I used Nissan on my drive shaft and also purchased two full sets of circlips. See post #15 in this thread.
    They come in 4 sizes 2.00 through to 2.06mm. Doesn't sound like much but 0.06mm can be a cause for that irritating gear stick chatter.
    Remember the tailshaft has the potential to be one of the fastest rotating items in the drivetrain, turning up to 120% of engine speed in 5th gear.
    Chas
    Last edited by EuroDat; 05-04-2014 at 03:40 PM.
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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