Outer rear control arm bushings help

[widget777]

I am rebuilding teh rear suspension on a 78 280Z. All is going well except I cannot get the new urethane bushings into to the outer control arm holes. IO have cleaned the control arm holes down to bare metal but cannot get the new bushings to slide into the holes. They seem to be 1/16" larger in diameter than the hole and when I compress them with a vise. they bulge out. This makes it impossible to slide in. I am using a lot of lubricant.
Questions -
1 - are the new bushing supposed to be oversized by 1/16" or do I hae the wrong bushings?
2 - Does anyone have any tips to get the bushings in to the control arm?

Thanks for your help

[V8-240Z]

Did you remove the outer steel sleeve?

[widget777]

No, I noticed a sleeve but thought it was part of the control arm. Any hints on how to get the sleeve out. I have a lot of hand tools and a vise. Thanks

[hls30.com]

Either tap it out using and appropriately sized socket as a driver, or cut the sleve across itself and twist it out-I have used the socket driver method several times with great success!
Will

[beandip]

My sleeves wouldn't come out with the socket method. I had to cut two cuts about 1/4'' apart and peal the strip out then collapse the rest of the shell and drive it out. Gary

[jmortensen]

You only need one slot, then you can use a hammer and punch to drive out the sleeve until you can grab it with a pair of pliers. I used a hacksaw (have to take the blade off then put it through the end of the control arm and reinstall. Cut TOWARDS the control arm so that if you go a little farther than necessary you aren't taking off the thin metal at the end of the arm and the tough part is keeping the blade level so that you don't cut further than you need to.

[=Enigma=]

Cut TOWARDS the control arm so that if you go a little farther than necessary you aren't taking off the thin metal at the end of the arm and the tough part is keeping the blade level so that you don't cut further than you need to.

Good advice. The key here is PATIENCE.....

[ktm]

Or you can do what I did and soak the sleeve in PB Blaster, apply heat, soak in some more PB Blaster, apply some heat, ad naseum for a few days. Then take the assembly to your local shop and ask them to press the sleeves out. I paid around $30 total for both arms.

[yor5150]

I'll apologize for the lengthy post in advance...

I'm installing an E.S. poly bushing kit on a '73 240Z.

Okay so I thought the shells/sleeves were part of the arm too. After finding this thread I was able to persuade them to leave their home of 35 years but believe me they didn't want to leave!

What this thread doesn't indicate is whether a new outer shell/sleeve was used. It appears like it wasn't but it Energy Suspensions Instructions states:

If your new bushing kit does not have new shells and/or sleeves, you must reuse the original shells and /or sleeves. Do not press out shells. Leave shells in arm. Remove rubber and sleeve from shell. Cam Bolt style Bushing's use a special washer on each end of the sleeve. To remove these washers, use a small punch through center of sleeve and tap lightly. When new washers are not supplied in kit, originals must be reused.

Which seems to indicate that the original shell should have been used since the kit doesn't contain one. If that's the case then the bushings will not fit and now I have to find a new set of sleeves and get bushings that actually fit the sleeves. No wonder another forum member decided to buy a rubber kit. I called the local Nissan Dealer and after the Part's guy laughed at me he said he would try to find it in the "system". I think Black Dragon carries rubber but I'd like to use what I already paid for.

If I look at the Master Parts list available at: http://www.atlanticz.ca/zclub/techti...ingkitlist.gif

I have eight poly bushings with the number 3062 on them which corresponds to the parts list for the kit:
The 7-3104 Read control arm bushing set contains:
Outer (hub end)
8 - 3062 bushings (hub end)
4 - 15.10.70.39 (.750" O.D. x 1.630" sleeve)
Inner
4 - 3078 bushings (inner rear position)
4 - 15.10.49.39 (1.187" O.D. x 1.0005" I.D. x 2.450" sleeve)
4 - 3077 bushings (inner front position)
4 - 15.10.95.39 (1.187" O.D. x 1.005" I.D. x 2.062" sleeve)

It says to use 17019 installation instructions which I found at:
http://www.energysuspension.com/pdf_instruc/17019.PDF

As I mentioned before, their instructions confuse me though. Do I not use an outer shell/sleeve and use the bushings I have OR...

Should I be using an outer sleeve and if so where do I get one as I had to cut the originals to get them out. This would mean that the part number # 3062 outer bushings are wrong for this application.

I found these threads as well. They were helpful but didn't answer my question...
Calling All Energy Suspension Bushing Users!

Spindle Pin Bushings

[yor5150]

They said this was the "exception to the rule" and not to use a shell. There went about an hour or two...

I'll apologize for the lengthy post in advance...

I'm installing an E.S. poly bushing kit on a '73 240Z.

Okay so I thought the shells/sleeves were part of the arm too. After finding this thread I was able to persuade them to leave their home of 35 years but believe me they didn't want to leave!

What this thread doesn't indicate is whether a new outer shell/sleeve was used. It appears like it wasn't but it Energy Suspensions Instructions states:

If your new bushing kit does not have new shells and/or sleeves, you must reuse the original shells and /or sleeves. Do not press out shells. Leave shells in arm. Remove rubber and sleeve from shell. Cam Bolt style Bushing's use a special washer on each end of the sleeve. To remove these washers, use a small punch through center of sleeve and tap lightly. When new washers are not supplied in kit, originals must be reused.

Which seems to indicate that the original shell should have been used since the kit doesn't contain one. If that's the case then the bushings will not fit and now I have to find a new set of sleeves and get bushings that actually fit the sleeves. No wonder another forum member decided to buy a rubber kit. I called the local Nissan Dealer and after the Part's guy laughed at me he said he would try to find it in the "system". I think Black Dragon carries rubber but I'd like to use what I already paid for.

If I look at the Master Parts list available at: http://www.atlanticz.ca/zclub/techti...ingkitlist.gif

I have eight poly bushings with the number 3062 on them which corresponds to the parts list for the kit:
The 7-3104 Read control arm bushing set contains:
Outer (hub end)
8 - 3062 bushings (hub end)
4 - 15.10.70.39 (.750" O.D. x 1.630" sleeve)
Inner
4 - 3078 bushings (inner rear position)
4 - 15.10.49.39 (1.187" O.D. x 1.0005" I.D. x 2.450" sleeve)
4 - 3077 bushings (inner front position)
4 - 15.10.95.39 (1.187" O.D. x 1.005" I.D. x 2.062" sleeve)

It says to use 17019 installation instructions which I found at:
http://www.energysuspension.com/pdf_instruc/17019.PDF

As I mentioned before, their instructions confuse me though. Do I not use an outer shell/sleeve and use the bushings I have OR...

Should I be using an outer sleeve and if so where do I get one as I had to cut the originals to get them out. This would mean that the part number # 3062 outer bushings are wrong for this application.

I found these threads as well. They were helpful but didn't answer my question...
Calling All Energy Suspension Bushing Users!

Spindle Pin Bushings

[FilipeA]

Hope we have an answer, because I might have some mistakes too.... I hope not

Filipe Azevedo

[Friar-Tuck]

I will be doing this in the future and am wondering since the steel "sleeve" does not rotate, and neither does the bushing, I can't see why not eliminate the sleeve as the bolt rotates inside the bushing. Does this make sense?
The load is between the bolt and the bushing, right? Thats why the bolt
gets a "cam" worn in it and must be pressed out.
Tuck \o/

[yor5150]

Here is E.S.' response to my question about the shells:

What he believes we now know...

<<<<<< Reply from E.S. >>>>>>

Kevin Lake
to Me
date Nov 1, 2007 9:14 AM
subject RE: Outer shells with #3062 poly outer bushings?
As we had talked about on the phone I beleive you do remove the shell for that application THANK YOU

And my response to his response:

Kevin,

Thanks. I sent the email message before calling. I was pleasantly surprised to not have to through some "run-around" automated system AND to get the answer to my question.

FYI & Food For Thought... There seems to be others at http://www.classiczcars.com as confused as I was. It would be extremely helpful to those of us with these older Z cars if the specific instructions for the outer bushings were included in the package. Replacing bushings is something a lot of us will only do once so having the details would save us time and frustration.

Thanks & regards,

Roy

[Rockr69]

you need to remove the outer shells. use the hacksaw method described earlier.

I then used a fine grit dremel sanding drum and cleaned up the inside of the hole and then sanded them with 600 grit and with just the right amount resistance the bushing slid in. hope this is helpful. Dan