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Thread: Urethane bushings squeaks

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    Registered User madkaw's Avatar
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    Default Urethane bushings squeaks

    I know this isn't the first squeaking urethane bushing thread but I do have a question. I have the black bushing that were purchased many years ago, but don't have many miles. They squeak bad- especially the rear arms. I have tried re lubeing them, but they start squeaking again after a while
    Did they make black ones that were not graphite impregnated?
    How do you tell if you do or don't have them?
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Registered User siteunseen's Avatar
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    I wonder if a spray silicone with the little red straw would quieten them down?
    1972 240Z #918 New Sight Orange
    1977 280Z #305 Light Blue Metallic
    1972 240Z #110 Persimmons Red

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    There are a couple of easy solutions to the "urethane squeek."

    One is a louder stereo.
    Another is a header and lo-flow exhaust.
    Even just a new subwoofer may do the trick.
    Last, but not least, are earplugs.

    Don't worry after awhile you won't even hear it.

    You can also remove the bushing and wrap teflon (plumbers) tape around the rod.

    If your'e going to try the aerosol and little red tube technique, I'd suggest white lithium grease instead of WD-40,

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    I already have the loud exhaust and stereo. The stereo will drown out the noise, but it's loud enough that other people can hear it.
    I posted over in hybridz and I think I will try the zerk fittings and grease. At least it's easy maintenance to squirt some grease in there.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    IMO.....The squeak drove me crazy.....I went back to stock bushings on my one car that had 'em. Go back to stock.....people outside your car will be a lot happier too!
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    70, 71, 2 72's, and a 73 240z....
    90 300zx and a 1996 Acura NSX.....but who's counting?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diseazd View Post
    IMO.....The squeak drove me crazy.....I went back to stock bushings on my one car that had 'em. Go back to stock.....people outside your car will be a lot happier too!
    So could you feel a difference in the handling that was worth noting?
    My car winds up being my daily driver when the weather is good. It hasn't seen a second of track time yet, but will eventually in a limited amount. So maybe I'm fooling myself to even have urethane in there.
    I would love to do a direct back to back drive of two cars set up with a stiffer springs and sport shocks, but one rubber and the other urethane
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Supporting Member Diseazd's Avatar
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    Steve.....I didn't notice any difference at all. The squeaking drove me crazy and the silicon grease lasted a couple a months and the squeak was back. You can buy stock bushings right from the dealer and they are cheap. Maybe a full blown race car needs em, but street and weekend warriors don't IMO.
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    70, 71, 2 72's, and a 73 240z....
    90 300zx and a 1996 Acura NSX.....but who's counting?

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    It seems primarily in the rear control arms where all the noise is coming from. I think I will change them out this winter and be done with it.

    It's frustrating when I have gone to great detail to eliminate rattles and make the level of refinement high on this car to just have it ruined by barn door creaking over bumps.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Okay guys, help me out here.
    I took off the rear control arms and suddenly noticed the length of my inner bushing sleeve( steel sleeve) was longer then the control arm pivot. So that tells me that my sleeve is not rotating on the control arm because it is locked in place by the cap bolt. I guess I have the wrong ones ? I'm going to trim the sleeve down and put it back together. Comments??
    Also, talked to a buddy who said his urethane bushings on the rear control arm( inner) is one piece where mine is two pieces. What do you guys have.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Pretty sure it's supposed to be that way. It's the same for the stock rubber bushing also. With the stock bushing, the rubber flexes but nothing rotates independently. That's why you have to load the suspension before tightening the big bolts, to get the inner sleeve rotated to where it won't put the rubber under constant tension. If you still have the old rubber bushing you'll see the teeth marks from the locking washer on the inner tube.

    With urethane the bushing rotates on the inner sleeve. That's where some of the grease needs to be, on the outside of the sleeve and inside of the bushing. The outer part of the bushing needs grease just for general loading and unloading friction on the caps and frame work.

    The original rubber bushing is pretty well-designed for its purpose.


    I bought an MSA urethane bushing kit on sale a few years ago. Black urethane, and the control arm bushings were two piece. By the way, I think that the idea that the black ones are graphite-loaded might just be a myth. Black color alone does not mean graphite has been added for lubricity.
    Last edited by Zed Head; 08-20-2013 at 01:21 PM.
    1976 280Z, with some minor modifications

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    Registered User EuroDat's Avatar
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    Zed is right, if you shorten the bush it will spin and squeak even worse then the PU bush. The PU bush spins on the inner sleeve and its dry. Its hard to get any lube in there without dismantling it. The spindle pins will be the worst to dismantle.

    Black dont mean much. It depends on the manufacture. Mine are black with NO graphite.

    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    You guys burst my bubble. I thought I had something.
    I have been running a heim joint style bar to connect my rear control arms- in leu of the standard brace. I'm going to dump the adjustable brace because it might be inducing loads on the bushings that are causing the squeak. The heim joints gave me ability to adjust toe, but my toe maybe the issue
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    So I am putting stuff back together and I am curious of my spindle bolts. My right /passenger rear control arm would not pivot at the spindle bolt with the inner bushings removed. I couldn't push down it and make it pivot. The driver's side was stiff but it would rotate at the spindle. I loosened the spindle nuts on the passenger side and everything pivoted fine. It doesn't seem right that I couldn't rotate the arm--????? Could this be part of my squeaking?
    So now I am trying to make sure I am torquing things the right way when I put it back together. I know it's best to torque things down while the car is sitting on it's tires. I am having a hard time finding torque specs on the spindle nuts.Any help please?

    The other issue that might have caused squeaking is that I had a way of adjusting rear toe, and what little adjustment I might have had, might have been too much for the urethane bushings.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Registered User EuroDat's Avatar
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    I cant remember mine being that tight. I could still move it up and down after torquing, but it required a lot of effort. Thats probably were your squeaking is coming from.
    Is the spindle pin centered in the right spot. Maybe lossen the locking bolt and retorquing the spindle to center it. Worth a try.
    Torque settings for the spindle are: end nut 54 - 69 ft-lb and the small cotter pin (locking bolt) is 7 - 9 ft-lb.
    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    Chas, good point about being centered . Makes me wonder if I actually did the right order when I initially installed the arms after bushing install. So loosening the center nut would allow the spindle to center itself during the torquing and then lock the center in place.
    Thanks
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Okay folks, I'm pretty sure I have an issue on my passenger side rear LCA -front outboard bushing. When I torque up the nuts on the spindle bolt the LCA about locks up, near impossible to move. I have attached pics of the control arm and hardware. The washer with the groove is the front outboard. This should tell me what is wrong, but I am too dense to figure it out. I look at the bushings and sleeves and they look alright, but honestly not sure what to look for. The driver's side works good and I can rotate LCA after torqueing. The driver's side bushing sleeves look different then the passenger side.
    Also, I did not try to remove the spindle, but they have been replaced. I tried to get the locking bolt out on the passenger side and couldn't get it to budge. The lock bolt seems to be canted inboard in the hole of the LCA, against the threads of the bolt. I don't want to remove the spindle when I'm not sure it's any issue.
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    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    The bushing and sleeve in photo 014 dont look right. The PU bush looks like its missing the flange section, but that might be the photo.
    If the PU bush does not have the flanged section, the sleeve looks too short which will let the washer bind on the lower control arm tube. This is most probably the source of your squeak.
    Bad news is that you need to remove the spindle pin to get the bushes out.
    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    The flange is there, but the shadows in the pics hides it. You are seeing a distinct line where the washer rides I believe. The sleeves on the other side look different-like is in made from different material. They look plain steel in color on the driver's side.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    The wear on the washer is allowing the washer to move too far towards the bushign and compressing it, creating friction. Replace the washers and make sure to use some grease when you assemble it. That should help.

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    Well I swapped the hardware around to eliminate possibilities. Putting the bad washer on the driver's side doesn't make much of a difference -the driver's side still moves easier then the passenger side. More importantly, putting the good washers on the passenger side doesn't help and it is still near Impossible to move up and down once torqued. So this tells me that;
    1. my sleeves are just a tad short on the passenger side? The washer should ride on the sleeve-correct?
    2. The spindle is not centered, but not sure how that would effect things. If it's off, I can't see it.

    Talked to my buddy and he says that his LCA's will just flop down after releasing the inboard sides. They move VERY freely. If I back off my nuts 1 turn I am there. Be nice to just drill and cotter pin like a bearing!
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    So I stopped and pulled the spindle bolt. Looks like I might have truly found the issue. The strut housing where the spindle mounts up is not real flat. You can tell where the sleeve has ridden and worn a spot on the end. I'm thinking this wear has actually moved the sleeve inward and is causing the flange of the urethane bushings to ride hard against the housing. Looking at the pics you can see the high spots on the strut housing end and the gouges on the urethane.
    I am happy to report that my spindle popped out easy.
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    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Looks like you found your problem. The only way I can think of that wear is the spindle nuts were on tight and the sleeve could spin.
    Do you have any ideas on how to repair it or are you going to replace the strut? You could get the end machined flat and use an extra hard metal washer to get the original length. Woulb be a good idea to order a new PU bushing set for the spindle pin.
    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    The sleeves are likely worn and now are too short. New sleeves will help but you make need to make over-length sleeves to take up the space were material has worn from the uprights. New washers are obviously required as well.

    All the worn parts indicates the nuts were loose at some point and allowed the collar to move in relation to the shaft and upright.

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    I tightened up the nuts very tight and worked the LCA up and down and watch the nut loosen up as the washer turned. So you are probably right that the LCA was turning the sleeve and wearing on the housing.

    I'm thinking it is a combination of too thick of flanges on the bushings and the sleeves being a tad short because of that. Measuring the width of the spindle housing I get about 135 mm. Now measuring the LCA at the width of the bushings I get about 133.5, so even after filing down the spindle housing it's still a press fit.
    I think I might have taken 1mm off by filing. That shouldn't effect how the sleeve works in regards to the urethane bushing. Not sure if that small amount will pinch the LCA mounting points or not.
    I have ordered a new bushing set and see how that does
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    I can remember mine being a real pita to get the LCA and PU bushes back on and inline so I could tap the spindle pin back in.
    Ended up using a paint scrapper to help lever/guide the bush over the stub axle. It was about 2 -3mm too small, but it was new and your situation is has used bushes. The distance between the new ones should be even less.

    I don't think your problem is here though because you don't have the problem when you torque the nuts. The problem starts when you compress the PU bushes until the washer locks down on the sleeve.

    I would start comparing things with the drivers side since its working oke.
    Can you see any difference in height between this and the drivers side?
    Chas
    Chas
    5/77 280Z HLS30 403100 with some modifications
    Original colour: 305 Light Blue. The PO changed it to Red

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    On closer examination of the drivers side, it's really no better. Same scenario where as the nut loosens up enough for movement of the LCA. When I removed the spindle pin I could see the same gouging on the spindle housing.
    I've cleaned up both sides by filing the ends smooth and it probably took 1mm off the driver's side also. Now it's time to wait on the new bushing set to see how that works.
    I wish I new enough about the suspension so when I did this initially I would have seen there was a problem. I guess now I can torque things down and known what to look for.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Yup, It's Orange CoastGuardZ's Avatar
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    Hey Steve... Prothane Super Grease was recommended to me back when I installed my bushings in 2006 and they've never made a sound.

    Prothane Super Grease - JEGS
    -Nate

    1972 Datsun 240Z #HLS30-47945 (aka: Kikka)
    2007 Nissan Frontier Crew Cab Long Bed SE 4x4 6 spd
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    It's more then a grease issue- unfortunately
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Yup, It's Orange CoastGuardZ's Avatar
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    Yeah, I saw that... and that's a bummer for sure. More or less just wanted to add a solution for people brought here by the squeaky bushings title. Hope you get it sorted out...
    -Nate

    1972 Datsun 240Z #HLS30-47945 (aka: Kikka)
    2007 Nissan Frontier Crew Cab Long Bed SE 4x4 6 spd
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    I actually have a tub of that stuff
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Ordered new bushings made by Prothane. Picked them because they were the cheapest available
    Nice little suprise- the urethane bushing ID has slots cut in them to help hold urethane grease. Something I considered doing anyway, but someone else thought of that too!! Looks like about 8 slots in each bushing.

    Now just need some time to install
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Default Use a combination of the Silicone Grease and Anti-Seize compound!!

    Steve,

    I have the Prothane bushings, I like them a lot. When I put them on, I packed the 'Slots' in the ID with a combination of the Silicone they provide with equal parts Anti-Seize compound mixed together. You will need some paper towels and paint thinner/brake cleaner for clean-up Ten years later - she's still quiet as a mouse! I guess if you think about it, the anti-seize is just about impossible to clean off if you get it on your hands. Good Stuff.
    Andrew (ZCurves)
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    I coated my spindle pin with Permatex anti seize - good stuff .
    My previous bushings had no slots to hold any lube.
    Installed one side outer and made sure movement was free after torque down.
    LCA pivots smoothly and sleeves are properly sized so urethane moves without loosening spindle nut.
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    No more squeaky !!!!
    Steve
    71 240z,bw-5sp 2.4-40 over,balanced,e-88,big valves,ported&polished, stage2,header, triple Mikuni's 40's
    3.90 Subaru STI LSD

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    Bay Area, CA
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    Good work!
    2/74 260Z

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